what is the economics behind ammo refill?

Factual Questions
21

Another thing that professional sharp shooters (snipers and competition shooters) do is weigh the bullets and/or cartridges and group them into like bunches.

The idea being that manufacturing variations in weight of the bullet and/or powder translate into variations in accuracy in the same rifle.

So if you load your batch with only bullets weighing 145.032 grains, you’re going to be more consistent than if you’d loaded your batch with bullets weighing 145.032, 145.042, 145.012, etc…

For loaded ammo, they generally weigh the cartridge, while for handloads, they weigh and group the individual components.

22

Hi guys,

I’m Chris Byrne, the reloading and long range shooting expert Grey Ghost linked to above.

I’ve written a bunch of posts on the subject under my ammo

and reloading

Categories. Also some posts specific to the economics of reloading:

And the cost of commercial ammo:

And I’m more than happy to answer any questions you have about reloading, firearms, or precision shooting.

In general, I agree with most of what has been said above. Most of us are in this as a hobby, as well as to save money.

The economics of reloading practice grade 9mm aren’t particularly good for example; saving only a few cents a round; however when you shoot 5000 rounds of it a year it does add up.

Even with practice grade ammunition, it is possible to have pretty big per round/per box savings. In a good year I might shoot 25,000 rounds of .45acp, in a bad year 10,000… and that’s based on the time I have, the number of events I can go to, and the amount of spare cash I have that year. The more I shoot, the better I shoot.

The last couple years have been very bad years; between the economy and some health issues, I’ve probably only shot around 5,000 rounds per year; but I’m hoping to bounce back in the next couple years.

These days, a 50rd box of commercial practice ammo in .45 JHP costs around $30 (which is down about 70% from peak two years ago; but brass and bullets are down a similar amount so scaling applies).

Including the cost of fresh unfired brass, I can load that exact same ammo (including the same case and bullets from the same manufacturer) for about $19. Plus, the next 9 times I shoot it (actually for .45acp it’s more like 20 times), the brass is free, so the it only costs me $11 each box.

If I want to use cheaper bullets I can do it for more like $14 a box. If I want to cast my own bullets using salvaged wheel weights, is more like $10 a box.

The cost of the brass in all cases is fixed, at about $8 per box or about $0.16 per case; and again, the next 9 times the brass is free, so it’s more like $6 a box, and $2 a box.

For those not wanting to do the math by the way, that’s a cost of around $0.60 per round of commercial JHP, about $0.38 a round for handloaded jhp, about $0.28 for handloaded plated round nose, and $0.20 for handloaded hand cast.

The non brass portion of cartridge cost runs from about $0.04 per for the hand cast with salvaged lead, up to about $0.22 per for the handloaded commercial JHP.

That could save me between $2500 and $10,000 a year assuming I shot the brass just once. If I reloaded each brass case 9 times, it’s a savings of $6,500 to $14,000… and it can turn what would be a bad shooting year, into a good one.

The economics on reloading and handloading precision ammunition, or defensive or hunting ammunition are even better.

Every round of match grade 300 winchester magnum I handload rather than buy, saves me more than $1; and that’s just the first time I use the brass. The next five times I use the brass (some chamberings are good for dozens of reloadings, some less than ten) I save more like $1.70. Given I can go through 500 rounds in a single shooting event weekend, that’s a huge savings.

Over the course of five events per year (buying once batch of brass per year and reloading it that whole year… which is approximately what I do actually), and assuming I practice as much as I shoot in events… that’s about an $8,000 a year savings.

Again, it turns a good year into a bad one.

Also, I can make a higher quality piece of ammunition, specifically tailored to my individual rifle; fine tuned to the ten thousandth of an inch and 1/10th grain of powder (about 0.006 grams or 0.0002 ounces). Factory ammunition has production tolerances approximately ten times that; and even match grade ammunition tolerances are two to five times that.

With the best quality commercial ammunition (which costs as much as $8 a shot depending on the chambering; but more like $3 for my .300wm), my 1000 yard competition rifles shoot to about .75moa at 600 yards (about a 4" group). With my hand loaded ammunition, it’s about .5 moa (about a 3" group).

That’s a huge difference in a competition… and the differences widen out a lot more at 1000 yards; where the best commercial loads get me to about 1.5 moa (about 15.5"), while my handloads can get me to a little under 1moa (about 10").

And by the way, I am not anywhere near “competitive” in matches.

The real serious competitors shoot two to five times as much as I do, and their group sizes are half mine… but with commercial ammo, their groups would be almost as bad as mine… and they’d all be broke (that’s assuming you could even get commercial ammo for their guns. Many are in custom chamberings that can only be handloaded).

So really, it’s a bit of everything. It’s fun, I shoot more, I’m more involved in the process, I have more control, I get better results, and I save money (that I use to shoot even more).

23

Oops, screwed up my math on the cheapest .45acp. I left something out and missed the rounding. It’s actually about a penny more per round than I listed.

24

Oh and as to the cost of the gear, I’ve written about that a lot as well in the reloading category; but I haven’t updated it in a while… I’m writing a post now to update it to todays pricing (the post up there at the moment is 4-5 years old).

As of today, you can get into reloading of one single chambering (say, .45acp) for about $60, using all new equipment… but you wouldn’t be too happy (there would be a lot of extra effort).

With about $150 worth of gear though, you can get going pretty well. Set up to make something like 100 rounds per hour of finished ammo, with a moderate amount of effort.

It takes about $300 worth of gear (including a die set for each) to do both pistol and rifle, at around 100 rounds per hour.

With about $600 worth of gear you can set up to do around 500 rounds per hour of pistol, and about half that of rifle (rifle brass takes more prep work and time).

About $1500 worth of gear you can set up to do over 1000 rounds per hour of pistol and about 2/3 that of rifle.

So it all depends on how much time you want to spend, vs how much money you want to spend.

Of course all those are for bulk ammo. High precision ammo… Takes anywhere from 2 to 10 minutes per round to make; and it needs some special tools. About $200 worth on top of what you need for bulk ammo. For about another $500 you can buy gear that will let you double your speed on precision ammo as well.

I’ve got about $2500 worth of gear, but that’s because I’ve got three different presses, including a progressive press, bullet feeder, brass feeder, dies for about 20 chamberings, and a lot of precision tools.

25

Lots of good information so far, but thought I’d add current numbers for 12Ga shotshells based on my most recent purchase of supplies.

I reload Winchester AA hulls with one ounce of #8 lead shot. My current cost, with lead shot at $40 for 25 pounds is $4.54 per box of 25 rounds. Same factory ammo at WalMart is currently $7.97. That’s a a pretty good return on my efforts as far as I’m concerned. I’m retired so I figure my time’s free.:smiley: It takes around 10 minutes to load 25 rounds if I’m taking my time.

There are cost/savings calculators hereif you’d like to run your own numbers.

I also reload .40 S&W, 9MM pistol ammo. My current cost for 40 S&W with cast lead bullets is $5.89 per 50 rounds.