# What is the endgame of cryptocurrencies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 11, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040 "2017-07-11T22:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/181 "2019-02-06T11:54:24Z")
Here’s a really excellent video on the basics of blockchains and how they work. The explanation is exceptionally clear and methodical, with practical examples throughout. It’s slightly technical, but too much so, and doesn’t assume any prior knowledge. [Blockchain 101 - A Visual Demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_160oMzblY8&feature=youtu.be) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/182 "2019-02-06T12:30:24Z")
And calls for regulation of crypto-currency exchanges are starting in BC, where Quadriga was registered. > **[Calls for better crypto regulation after millions frozen at B.C. exchange](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/calls-for-better-crypto-regulation-after-millions-frozen-at-b-c-exchange/amp)** > > QuadrigaCX founder died in December, allegedly taking key to $180 million in digital assets with him. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/183 "2019-02-06T19:16:58Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > But **iamthewalrus(:3=** wrote that “for a variety of reasons” nobody has published a lightweight, portable bitcoin app that runs on people’s phones. Is this true? Why not? Seems like that would be an integral part of the endgame of those pushing bitcoins: to get people to use them. Have the pushers given up? > [@nesta](#): > > I’ll let him speak for himself, but I don’t think that’s what he meant. I thought what he was saying is that bitcoin isn’t comparable to Venmo because they never developed the user base that Venmo has, and that’s what would be required to make bitcoin actually usable by the general public. > > There are bitcoin wallets for phones. I can’t vouch for them actually working, but they are there: > > [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet&hl=en](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet&hl=en) > [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bitcoin.mwallet&hl=en](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bitcoin.mwallet&hl=en) > [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coinbase.android&hl=en](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coinbase.android&hl=en) > > I would guess that at least one of them actually works, and you can transfer and receive bitcoin almost as easily as Venmo. You just have to deal with using bitcoin to do it, and that’s the real hurdle: why use bitcoin? The app isn’t the problem, bitcoin is. There are bitcoin apps for phones, but they don’t solve the hard parts of bitcoin, which are security and easy integration with the money we normally use. A simple phone app on par with Venmo would have to seamlessly convert from the money you want to send to the money you want to receive and have some kind of insurance backstop that would mean you don’t have to wait for 40+ minutes to have reasonable assurance that the transfer actually happened. The reasons that hasn’t happened are legion. Some are technical, some are political, some are financial, some are regulatory. Arguably, a hallmark of cryptocurrencies is that every problem is simultaneously technical, political, financial, and regulatory. It’s a mess. It wouldn’t surprise me if some cryptocurrency ends up being in more common regular use in the future, but it certainly hasn’t been Bitcoin. If anything, Bitcoin is further from that than it was a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/184 "2019-02-06T20:49:53Z")
The Cash App includes bitcoin as a method of payment, right along with bank accounts and credit cards. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/185 "2019-02-06T21:57:49Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > This is more concrete, not merely theoretical, evidence that bitcoins are badly designed for whatever people are apparently trying to do with it. I’ve heard it stated that Bitcoin is more of a proof-of-concept that happened to be just good enough at just the right time to take off. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/186 "2019-02-06T22:39:13Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > I’ve heard it stated that Bitcoin is more of a proof-of-concept that happened to be just good enough at just the right time to take off. Technically this is true of all software that has taken off. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/187 "2019-02-07T00:26:29Z")
Anybody remember those Mondex cards? You were supposed to actually buy stuff using it, though, not engage in currency speculation. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/188 "2019-02-07T02:49:39Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > That article says that “she said the cold wallet stored $180 million in Canadian dollars”, but that seems doubtful- there were probably just bitcoins and what not. > [@](#): > > The exchange holds roughly 26,500 bitcoin ($92.3 million USD), 11,000 bitcoin cash ($1.3 million), 11,000 bitcoin cash SV ($707,000), 35,000 bitcoin gold ($352,000), nearly 200,000 litecoin ($6.5 million) and about 430,000 ether ($46 million), totaling $147 million, according to the affidavit… > > Not all of Quadriga’s funds are in crypto. According to its court filing, about $70 million CAD ($53 million USD) of its funds are held by payment processors in fiat. > > Of that, about $30 million CAD ($23 million USD) is held by payment processor Billerfy in the form of bank drafts. Billerfy has explained in the past that it was having difficulty finding banking partners to endorse these drafts, preventing it from releasing the funds back to the exchange. > **[The Collapse of QuadrigaCX: What We Know (And What We Don't)](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2019/02/06/the-collapse-of-quadrigacx-what-we-know-and-what-we-dont/)** > > The growing scandal around the QuadrigaCX crypto exchange has numerous angles – and raises many questions. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/189 "2019-02-09T12:05:49Z")
> [@nesta](#): > > It seems the owner died of Crohn’s disease in India. That does sound like conspiracy theory fodder, but they included a death certificate so he’s probably really dead. I would think it would be fairly easy to trace the blockchain transactions to and from their cold wallet, and if you see transactions out after his reported death, or a bunch of movement shortly before, everyone would know something isn’t right. Say what? A young guy dies of Crohn’s disease? A quick reading if the Wiki shows that Crohn’s disease is, well, a PITA but not fatal unless you have a bowel obstruction or bowel cancer. Neither of those kill you quickly, and an affluent Westerner could get to a decent hospital. Death certificate? No problem in a Third World country. Why does it look as if he did a runner and the laptop will only have digital garbage on it, once the password is finally cracked? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/190 "2019-02-09T16:34:28Z")
For a well-off Canadian you would expect the body would be transported back to Canada for burial. Was it? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/191 "2019-02-09T23:07:55Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Say what? A young guy dies of Crohn’s disease? A quick reading if the Wiki shows that Crohn’s disease is, well, a PITA but not fatal unless you have a bowel obstruction or bowel cancer. Neither of those kill you quickly, and an affluent Westerner could get to a decent hospital. This is not accurate. Crohn’s disease can lead to perforation of the bowel and thus release of gut bacteria into the bloodstream. The sepsis that can result is potentially lethal itself. But when you add that insult to the system of a person who’s been on immunosuppressant therapy for their Crohn’s (a mainstay of modern therapy), rapid and overwhelming sepsis would not at all be unexpected (and especially for a Westerner in India working among the poor, exposed to all types of immunologically unfamiliar and/or nasty microorganisms). ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/192 "2019-02-15T03:56:55Z")
One day after entering into “receivership” (I don’t know the technical term), Quadriga “accidentally” put about $500,000 of cryptocurrency into an inaccessible cold wallet. Given the amount of debt the company is in, that’s small potatoes, but how is that even possible when it’s now being controlled by Ernst & Young? On a related note, the company has bank drafts (that banks refuse to honor) that aren’t being held by the company or Ernst & Young, but private individuals. The company didn’t even have its own bank account (and the bank account someone else opened for it was frozen). The company didn’t keep accounting records. I never invested in crypto, but I wish I had known about this company beforehand. Maybe I wouldn’t have been surprised. (The frozen bank account saga is a year old.) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/193 "2019-02-15T22:02:53Z")
JPMorgan is getting into some sort of [cryptocurrency business](http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/jp-morgan-chase-cryptocurrency/). (Love the 2nd par in that article.) Not a bitcoin type mining thing but a blockchain system for international transactions. Blockchains? That is so 2017. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/194 "2019-02-15T22:11:09Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Blockchains? That is so 2017. More like 2010. How do banks not have 50+ years of experience in secure digital transfers of money, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/195 "2019-02-15T22:15:21Z")
I found myself asking that very question when I moved across country and found myself without any access to any money at all for three weeks. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/196 "2019-03-07T01:17:49Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Updating this thread an interesting situation in Canada: > A cryptocurrency exchange in Canada has lost control of at least $137 million of its customers’ assets following the sudden death of its founder, who was the only person known to have access the the offline wallet that stored the digital coins. British Columbia-based QuadrigaCX is unable to access most or all of another $53 million because it’s tied up in disputes with third parties… > [Digital exchange loses $137 million as founder takes passwords to the grave | Ars Technica](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/digital-exchange-loses-137-million-as-founder-takes-passwords-to-the-grave/) > [@](#): > > A court-appointed auditor, Ernst & Young, was able to crack Cotten’s laptop and found that the accounts were emptied in April, eight months before his death, it said in a report last week. > > “In April 2018, the remaining bitcoin in the Identified Bitcoin Cold Wallets was transferred out bringing the balances down to nil,” the report said. > > The investigators said they found other issues too, such as that Quadriga kept “limited books and records” and never reported its financials. [https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/news/crypto-ceo-died-with-passwords-to-137-million-but-the-money-is-gone-2019-3-1028009684](https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/news/crypto-ceo-died-with-passwords-to-137-million-but-the-money-is-gone-2019-3-1028009684) Here is the Ernst & Young report: [https://documentcentre.eycan.com/eycm\_library/Quadriga%20Fintech%20Solutions%20Corp/English/1.%20Monitor's%20Reports/4.%20Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor/Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor%20dated%20March%201,%202019.pdf](https://documentcentre.eycan.com/eycm_library/Quadriga%20Fintech%20Solutions%20Corp/English/1.%20Monitor%27s%20Reports/4.%20Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor/Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor%20dated%20March%201,%202019.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/197 "2019-03-07T02:11:55Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/news/crypto-ceo-died-with-passwords-to-137-million-but-the-money-is-gone-2019-3-1028009684](https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/news/crypto-ceo-died-with-passwords-to-137-million-but-the-money-is-gone-2019-3-1028009684) > > Here is the Ernst & Young report: > [https://documentcentre.eycan.com/eycm\_library/Quadriga%20Fintech%20Solutions%20Corp/English/1.%20Monitor's%20Reports/4.%20Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor/Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor%20dated%20March%201,%202019.pdf](https://documentcentre.eycan.com/eycm_library/Quadriga%20Fintech%20Solutions%20Corp/English/1.%20Monitor%27s%20Reports/4.%20Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor/Third%20Report%20of%20the%20Monitor%20dated%20March%201,%202019.pdf) Thanks for the update, I figured there was more to this. Next question: did the founder actually die in India or is he on the run with the money? Is his wife in on this? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/198 "2019-03-07T03:17:20Z")
I think that we can make a pretty good guess to the answers to both questions. Why would they have needed to crack his laptop? Wasn’t all the evidence in the public blockchain? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/199 "2019-03-07T09:48:23Z")
Since, it seems, much of the bitcoin business is related to crime, does it follow that some seriously pissed-off criminals are looking for Mr Cotten? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2019, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040/200 "2019-03-07T11:26:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that we can make a pretty good guess to the answers to both questions. > > Why would they have needed to crack his laptop? Wasn’t all the evidence in the public blockchain? Wouldn’t they need to know the wallet or wallets to track? The passphrases or private keys for the wallet or wallets are probably what he had encrypted. Wouldn’t you need those to do any tracking? I’m not really sure. I suppose you could look for the transfers of large amounts in the relevant time frame, but he could have had the coins stored in small amounts in a large number of wallets. I have no idea what the total volume of transfers is on any given day. Is it large enough to camouflage the transfer of millions of dollars worth if it’s done in small amounts? He’d have the problem of laundering 137 million in Bitcoin and turning it into goods or cash but I suppose that there are places in the world that would welcome him and shield him with a few well placed bribes. Converting that much to cash all at once would probably drive the price down so he wouldn’t get 137 million, but he’d probably do it in smaller amounts each time he needs more cash. In any case they’ve cracked it so now I think they should be able to track it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-endgame-of-cryptocurrencies/791040.md?page=11)