# What is the English word for a human with a naturally occurring vagina? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 18, 2021, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861 "2021-09-18T08:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/102 "2021-09-21T02:48:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > There’s disagreement in this thread about whether we actually do need any such new term, but AFAICT everybody but you acknowledges that the old terms “women” and “girls” have become too ambiguous to qualify. I don’t agree that they’ve become too ambiguous, not when they’re accurate more than 98% of the time. If we need another term because it’s somehow important to make the distinction between women whose vaginas are OEM vs aftermarket, it would make more sense to come up with a new specific term for the few the typical term isn’t a perfect fit for rather than the overwhelming vast majority to whom the typical term does apply. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/103 "2021-09-21T11:43:46Z")
We already have words like ciswoman, transwoman, and bottom surgery. I think we can talk about whether a woman’s vagina is OEM or not pretty explicitly with existing words. And it’s not like it comes up that often. I don’t feel the need for more words. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/104 "2021-09-21T11:57:46Z")
“Female”, unless and until the person in question feels otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/105 "2021-09-21T12:28:42Z")
A word would be useful for medical descriptions. The genderless medical descriptions can be wordy, awkward and confusing. For example: - The gene for baldness is passed down through the mother and typically causes baldness in men starting around 30 years old. - The gene for baldness is passed down through the person who contributes genetic material from the XX chromosomes and typically causes baldness in people who are testosterone dominate starting around 30 years old. Everyone understand the first one. The second one may be more technically correct, but fewer people are going to understand it. The differences between genetically XX and XY people is one of the most important distinctions in the human race. It that difference that influences many things about things like body shape, mental behaviors, lifespan, health issues, ways of thinking, and so on. Having a shorthand way to distinguish between XX and XY people is very useful to avoid cumbersome descriptions that avoid any gender or sex terms. If men/women doesn’t work, then maybe male/female should be used instead. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/106 "2021-09-21T12:39:39Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > A word would be useful for medical descriptions. The genderless medical descriptions can be wordy, awkward and confusing. For example: > > - The gene for baldness is passed down through the mother and typically causes baldness in men starting around 30 years old. > - The gene for baldness is passed down through the person who contributes genetic material from the XX chromosomes and typically causes baldness in people who are testosterone dominate starting around 30 years old. > > Everyone understand the first one. The second one may be more technically correct, but fewer people are going to understand it. As someone who follows genealogical facebook groups discussing the results of DNA testing I can tell you that, in general, people do _not_ understand that first one. It would be better to be technically correct so people realize it’s a technical question that requires them to learn more. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/107 "2021-09-21T12:40:23Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > The gene for baldness is passed down through the mother and typically causes baldness in men starting around 30 years old. I think this remains fine. We understand from context that it’s the maternal genetic contribution that matters here. To the extent this statement is true (I’m dubious, but let’s accept it for this linguistic question) it has never been true of adoptive mothers. And there have been adoptive mothers since the dawn of history, and yet, we’ve managed not to be confused. As for the “men” part, i think that’s good enough for casual conversation, as well. Here it might be worth adding something about testosterone, but it’s not like that statement was super-precise to begin with. I had a female friend in college who was clearly suffering from the start of male-pattern baldness, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/108 "2021-09-21T15:33:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > To the extent this statement is true (I’m dubious, but let’s accept it for this linguistic question) it has never been true of adoptive mothers. And there have been adoptive mothers since the dawn of history, and yet, we’ve managed not to be confused. There have also been egg and sperm donors, as well as surrogates, for quite some time now. Between that and adoption, there are a lot of people with mothers and/or fathers with whom they share no genetic material. But I could see wanting a genderless way to describe the parent who carries the pregnancy. If the doctor of my pregnant trans acquaintance, mentioned upthread, wanted to discuss genetic testing with the couple, they’d want to avoid misgendering him with words like “mother.” I imagine they’d just use “you” when speaking to him, or his name when speaking to both of them (“since you have/Bob has a family history of X, we’re going to need you/him to come in for an ultrasound…”) But if they wanted a more inclusive term for him and mothers, that didn’t exclude him from fathers, I suppose they could go with “egg parent” and “sperm parent.” (“We strongly recommend this test for any embryos where both the egg and sperm parent are of X ethnicity…”) And if relevant, the “gestational parent.” (“We recommend gestational parents refrain from X…”) I believe those terms have been kicking around in assisted reproduction already. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/109 "2021-09-21T16:20:47Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > We already have words like ciswoman, transwoman, and bottom surgery. I think we can talk about whether a woman’s vagina is OEM or not pretty explicitly with existing words. Aha! I just realized (upon reading _puzzlegal’s_ post here) that we’re discussing two different things in this thread as if they were the same thing: 1. Whether we need a word to differentiate between a person sporting a surgically created vagina and a person who was born with one; versus 2. Whether we need a word to differentiate between a person owning a vagina regardless of origin and a person (regardless of gender identity ) who doesn’t have one All of my posts to this thread have focused on the latter. I assume it’s not news to anyone in here that there are women whose equipment is of the penile variety and not the vaginal type. Some of them can’t afford medical transitioning. Some of them can’t go there for reasons of health. Some of them opt not to go that route because of the primitive limitations of the procedures and the possibility of loss of sensation or function. So far, we could lump all those gals into the broad category of “well they would if they coudl do so magically, with no medical risks, limitations, or associated financial burdens”. But there are also transgender women who present as women and wish to be perceived as women but who do not have any interest in a medical transition, not feeling that their current equipment is wrong and in need of correction. Meanwhile, there are many transgender MEN who look at the limitations and costs of surgical transitioning and just shake their heads. To be blunt, the docs are less good at it going in that direction. With all of them in mind, Question variant Two, therefore, is “what is the English word for a person (trans or otherwise) who does have a vagina”? This is different from Question variant One, which is aimed at differentiating a person whose vagina is OEM from one who isn’t, and for that, I say “cisgender woman” or “ciswoman” for short. ETA: iow I agree with _puzzlegal_ ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/110 "2021-09-21T16:20:56Z")
In fruit breeding, it’s common to refer to the pollen parent and the seed parent. (Or sometimes the pod parent or ovum parent, instead of the seed parent, depending on the plant) So i guess that’s consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/111 "2021-09-21T18:13:42Z")
To emphasize what others have said, words are like heroes: when they’re needed, they’ll rise up. If you need a word for this–say, you’re a doctor–then you’ll make word; and if others need it, your word will catch on. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/112 "2021-09-21T21:07:35Z")
In talking about my pregnant trans acquaintance, I would be remiss not to mention that his community has already come up with a cute name for themselves: seahorse dads. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/113 "2021-09-21T22:19:35Z")
Okay, that phrase is objectively adorable and does need to become a universally recognized English idiom ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2021, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/114 "2021-09-22T10:45:01Z")
I concur. Definitely adorable. ---
**Author:** ![LearningEveryDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@LearningEveryDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LearningEveryDay)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/115 "2021-09-24T11:02:49Z")
Why do you feel you need a term to talk about someone’s genitals at birth? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/116 "2021-09-24T15:56:38Z")
Hi LearningEveryDay, and welcome to the Straight Dope! I don’t really know the answer to your question either. My best guess is that many people just feel bothered by the recent semantic decoupling of the terms “woman” and “man” from the characteristics “anatomically female” and “anatomically male”, respectively. It’s true that the word “woman”, for example, used to be considered to unambiguously imply “having a naturally occurring vagina”, so now that we can’t necessarily take that for granted anymore, don’t we need a new word for that characteristic?? ISTM that the societal consensus is probably going to come down on the side of nah, we actually don’t need one. Very little about routine social interactions with either women or men requires actually knowing what kind of genitals they have, much less what kind of genitals they were originally issued with. Dating for many people is still going to require such information about genitalia, but that’s being taken care of by increased recognition of the categories “cisgender” and “transgender” as dating criteria. (In fact, the quicker society moves to acceptance of transgender identity and rights, the easier it’s going to be to screen potential dates for gender identity if one wishes to, because there will be less pressure on transgender people to hide their transgender status.) All of which means that a standard term for designating somebody’s birth genitalia in casual conversation is probably just not going to emerge, because we don’t need it. ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/117 "2021-09-26T17:22:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > My best guess is that many people just feel bothered by the recent semantic decoupling of the terms “woman” and “man” from the characteristics “anatomically female” and “anatomically male”, respectively. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Dating for many people is still going to require such information about genitalia, but that’s being taken care of by increased recognition of the categories “cisgender” and “transgender” as dating criteria I am in no way trans phobic. I will use whatever word my fellow human wants. But the above quotes are gets my pedantic/semantic goat up. Cisgendered and transgendered still divides people into “biological male” or “not biological male” If I understand some of the vitriol directed my way, I’m an idiot for even worrying about what reproductive organ people have. And I should be ashamed of myself for even thinking there is a difference or importance to biological differences. But cisgendered and transgendered do just that. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/118 "2021-09-26T17:39:44Z")
> [@Somethingwitty1](#): > > I’m …worrying about what reproductive organ people have. (Text snipped to avoid giving the impression that I’m using the text to deliver an insult.) And WHY are you worrying what reproductive organs people have? As **Kimstu** points out, it may very well matter from a dating perspective, but that seems to be handled already. Besides, one assumes it’s okay, maybe even preferable, to communicate with a potential sex partner using more than one word. It may also matter medically, but I haven’t heard the medical profession bemoaning lack of adequate words to describe medical cases they observe. I am pretty sure doctors can use more than one word at a time to describe their patients’ histories and medical circumstances. So the two situations in which it might very well matter whether or not someone has a vagina and whether or not they were born with it seem to be covered. Despite many people in this thread explaining to you that people’s reproductive organs are generally irrelevant otherwise, you keep insisting they are so relevant that you need one word you can use so that the world knows, in everyday conversation, what the status is of someone’s private parts. But you have yet to explain why. ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/119 "2021-09-26T17:42:34Z")
Why do you bifurcate women into ciswoman and transwoman? ---
**Author:** ![Somethingwitty1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/somethingwitty1/32/8899_2.png) [@Somethingwitty1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somethingwitty1)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/120 "2021-09-26T17:55:47Z")
IOWs, The terms ciswoman and transwoman is an acknowledgement that there is a difference between the two. But any attempt to suggest “there is a difference between the two” makes one a transphobic. When the trans friendly use of of language does the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861/121 "2021-09-26T18:03:45Z")
If you are asking me, I don’t. I’m not even sure how many trans women, as opposed to ciswomen, I know. (Probably several because I live in a town well known for being welcoming to LGBTQ folks.) The only reason I do know that one person is trans is because her wife told me all about it. Absent that, it never would have come up. So there is a difference between someone with “a naturally occurring vagina” and a trans woman. Has someone in this thread claimed the two are totally identical under every circumstance? I don’t think so. Sure, there are some differences, just like there will be differences between someone who went to Yale and studied law and someone who went to Penn State and studied mechanical engineering. So what? There are lots of differences among people. When those differences matter, we generally find the language we need to talk about it. You still haven’t explained WHY you need to bring up the status of anyone’s reproductive organs in daily conversation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-english-word-for-a-human-with-a-naturally-occurring-vagina/950861.md?page=7)