# What is the future of Egyptian-Israeli relations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173 "2012-06-24T19:42:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/1 "2012-06-24T19:42:59Z")
Mohammed Morsi (or Morsy), the [Muslim Brotherhood](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt)/[candidate, [url=[Celebration in Egypt as Morsi declared winner | News | Al Jazeera](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/201262412445190400.html)]has won the Egyptian presidential election.](]Freedom and Justice Party[/url) The MB would also be the largest party in Parliament, if the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces and its puppet Constitutional Court had not [recently dissolved it.](http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2012/06/201261512748525974.html) Also, the SCAF [has decided to allow the president only limited powers.](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/06/2012617223351982587.html) Now, I’m pretty sure that if this situation ends with the MB in actual power, they are **not** going to set up an Iranian- or Saudi-Arabian-style theocracy, or stone adulterers, or make women quit their jobs and wear burqas in public. That would be [Al-Nour,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Nour_Party) with which the MB has hostile relations, and has stated the MB would not even consider forming a coalition government with Al-Nour. But what about Egyptian relations with Israel? The SCAF apparently values the enormous financial aid the U.S. gives Egypt every year ([$1.5 billion in 2010; $3.1 billion to Israel that year](http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm)), which is essentially a bribe for Egypt to continue recognizing Israel and keeping peace with it. They don’t want to do anything that would make that aid dry up, they’re practical (and greedy and corrupt). But the MB are ideologues. The late leader of the MB in Egypt, [Mohammed Mahdi Akef,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mahdi_Akef) [was quoted as saying,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt#Beliefs) “We believe that Zionism, the United States, and England are gangs that kill children and women and men and destroy houses and fields. … Zionism is a gang, not a country. So we will resist them until they don’t have a country.” Is that actually going to be the policy of the MB now? Are even they crazy enough to de-recognize Israel, let alone risk yet another war with it? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/2 "2012-06-24T20:00:30Z")
I don’t think anyone knows, which is why both Israel and the US are so nervous. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/3 "2012-06-24T20:19:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “We believe that Zionism, the United States, and **England** are gangs that kill children and women and men and destroy houses and fields. … Zionism is a gang, not a country. So we will resist them until they don’t have a country.” Is that actually going to be the policy of the MB now? Are even they crazy enough to de-recognize Israel, let alone risk yet another war with it? What an odd thing to say. UK policy is pro-Palestinian mostly ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/4 "2012-06-24T20:24:02Z")
I really don’t think the answer is going to change, no matter how many times you ask. It’s too early to tell, but it doesn’t look that bright. Morsy still has to work with the Egyptian army -or rather, go up against it. It also depends on what Israel’s leadership looks like in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/5 "2012-06-24T20:28:30Z")
The military still seems be in control of the country, and US aid makes up something like a quarter of the Egyptian military budget. I suspect the fact that the military council allowed Morsi to be President means they’re relatively certain he won’t do anything to endanger that funding, and thus either they’re convinced he won’t go overboard on the anti-Israel schtick, or at least that they can stop him if he tries. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/6 "2012-06-24T21:08:09Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > What an odd thing to say. UK policy is pro-Palestinian mostly Not from the POV of Middle Easterners. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/7 "2012-06-24T22:13:43Z")
[Apparently, Iran approves of this result, and Israel ain’t too pissed.](http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/24/12379018-mohammed-morsi-egypts-next-president-protesters-bloodshed-will-not-be-in-vain?lite) > [@](#): > > On the campaign trail, [Morsi] promised to institute Islamic law. One of his supporters, cleric Safwat el-Hegazy, issued a direct challenge to Israel, calling for a Muslim super-state across the Middle East with Jerusalem as its capital. > > Morsi, 60, distanced himself from the cleric’s comments, but they trailed him on the campaign despite his assertion that he will respect international treaties, including the 1979 peace accord, on which much U.S. aid depends. He said he will not, however, meet with Israeli officials, according to the BBC. > > He has also pledged to form an inclusive government to appeal to the many Egyptians, including a large Christian minority worried about potential religious rule. He has repeated that he would maintain his independence from the Brotherhood and not turn Egypt into a theocracy. > > \ > > Iran’s Foreign Ministry congratulated Egyptians on Sunday for Morsi’s victory, saying Egypt was in the final stages of an “Islamic Awakening.” > > Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office released a statement saying he “appreciates the democratic process in Egypt and respects its outcome.” > > "Israel expects continue cooperation with the Egyptian administration on the basis of the peace accord between the two countries, which is in the interest of the two peoples and contributes to regional stability,‘’ the statement said. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/8 "2012-06-24T22:19:37Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Not from the POV of Middle Easterners. Well that’s silly really. Yeah, I know balfour declaration blah de blah but objectively speaking in recent time there is no question that the policy of the UK has been pro-Palestinian. For example, take a look at the remarks of the ambassador to the PA in [Extreme Rambling: Walking Israel’s Separation Barrier. For Fun.](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Extreme-Rambling-Walking-Separation-Barrier/dp/0091927803) by confirmed left-winger and very pro-Paelstinian Mark Thomas. Had the ambassador been pro-Israeli Thomas would not have hesitated to report such. And I very much doubt the British Ambassador is a loose cannon. Clearly the sympathies are with the opressed. Of course if the “POV of Middle Easterners” is just that Israel shouldn’t exist full stop, that’s retraded - fuck em. But more reasonable educated ones have a friend in the United Kingdom. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/9 "2012-06-24T22:35:47Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > Well that’s silly really. Yeah, I know balfour declaration blah de blah but objectively speaking in recent time there is no question that the policy of the UK has been pro-Palestinian. The UK also has diplomatic relations with Israel, recognizes it’s existence, the word “Israel” appears on maps of the Middle East/Near East in the UK and the UK’s attitude towards Jews is substantially different than that of most Middle Eastern Muslims and Christians, and I don’t believe that “Zionism” is considered a bad word, much less a racist philosophy in the UK. From the Middle Eastern POV, you have to do far more than merely criticize Israeli actions to be viewed as “pro-Palestinian”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/10 "2012-06-24T22:46:11Z")
It’s not just Israel. Egypt was once a de facto British colony; and it was the British - along with the Israelis and the French - who invaded Egypt in 1956. Even without Israel, the Egyptians wouldn’t like the UK that much. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/11 "2012-06-24T22:52:58Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > Well that’s silly really. Yeah, I know balfour declaration blah de blah but objectively speaking in recent time there is no question that the policy of the UK has been pro-Palestinian. > > For example, take a look at the remarks of the ambassador to the PA in [Extreme Rambling: Walking Israel’s Separation Barrier. For Fun.](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Extreme-Rambling-Walking-Separation-Barrier/dp/0091927803) by confirmed left-winger and very pro-Paelstinian Mark Thomas. Had the ambassador been pro-Israeli Thomas would not have hesitated to report such. And I very much doubt the British Ambassador is a loose cannon. > > Clearly the sympathies are with the opressed. > > Of course if the “POV of Middle Easterners” is just that Israel shouldn’t exist full stop, that’s retraded - fuck em. But more reasonable educated ones have a friend in the United Kingdom. Name one policy or official statement of UK Government that indicates or proves your claim or any substantial criticism of the way state of Israel treats Palestinians. Well, don’t bother - there isn’t one. You are mistaking ability of an MP to speak his mind freely with an official policy. In fact, quite the opposite is true that UK Government is just repeating Israeli and US talking points, does not make any statement or official policy that strays away from the script. Existence of pockets of “free speech” in UK which can call Israel for what it really are remnants of socialist anti-imperialist flavour of the Labour Party generally understood to be impotent. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/12 "2012-06-24T22:54:11Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > the UK’s attitude towards Jews is substantially different than that of most Middle Eastern Muslims and Christians, Anyone who has a different “attitude towards Jews” to the UK can go fuck themselves tbh. I don’t see why bigots are worth listening to. Even though the Middle Eastern “man on the street” probably is an anti-semite, is it really the case that that is government policy in Egypt? Even if those thoughts are held privately by politicians how can they express such things in public? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/13 "2012-06-24T22:55:52Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Name one policy or official statement of UK Government that indicates or proves your claim or any substantial criticism of the way state of Israel treats Palestinians. Well, don’t bother - there isn’t one. I found [this](http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/30/israel-uk-government-settlements_n_1176083.html) on Google in ten seconds. I could find millions more, it’s just the first to come up. Edit: I also never said anything about an MP. Mark Thomas is a comedian and ambassadors are not MPs. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/14 "2012-06-24T23:31:54Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > I found [this](http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/30/israel-uk-government-settlements_n_1176083.html) on Google in ten seconds. I could find millions more, it’s just the first to come up. > > Edit: I also never said anything about an MP. Mark Thomas is a comedian and ambassadors are not MPs. Criticizing Israel is hardly enough to be considered “pro-Palestinian”. The US government under George H. W. Bush was far more openly critical of Israel than any UK government of the past several decades yet no one would argue that the US of that time was more “pro-Palestinian” than it was “pro-Israel.” ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/15 "2012-06-27T02:01:54Z")
> [@Confused dart cum](#): > > I found [this](http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/30/israel-uk-government-settlements_n_1176083.html) on Google in ten seconds. I could find millions more, it’s just the first to come up. I asked for a policy - set of agreed principles, laws and actions Government enacts when it wants something done about an issue generally understood to require Government action — not for a nonsensical posturing that looks almost as written by an Israeli foreign minister. > [@Confused dart cum](#): > > Edit: I also never said anything about an MP. Mark Thomas is a comedian and ambassadors are not MPs. I may have mixed him up with someone else so the point is probably lost when applied to this guy. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/16 "2012-06-29T00:51:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Now, I’m pretty sure that if this situation ends with the MB in actual power, they are **not** going to set up an Iranian- or Saudi-Arabian-style theocracy, or stone adulterers, or make women quit their jobs and wear burqas in public. According to a Pew Research Center Study released December 2, 2010, in Egypt 82 percent of Muslims favor stoning adulterers, 77 percent favor whipping or cutting off the hands of robbers, and 84 percent favor the death penalty for Muslims who leave the Islamic faith. > **[Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/)** > > Extremist groups Hamas and Hezbollah continue to receive mixed ratings from Muslim publics. However, opinions of al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden, are consistently negative; only in Nigeria do Muslims offer views that are, on balance,... ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/17 "2012-06-29T00:54:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But the MB are ideologues. The late leader of the MB in Egypt, [Mohammed Mahdi Akef,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mahdi_Akef) [was quoted as saying,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt#Beliefs) “We believe that Zionism, the United States, and England are gangs that kill children and women and men and destroy houses and fields. … Zionism is a gang, not a country. So we will resist them until they don’t have a country.” Is that actually going to be the policy of the MB now? Are even they crazy enough to de-recognize Israel, let alone risk yet another war with it? Yes. I think they are just that crazy. That is why I think we should not be using military force to spread democracy in the Mid East. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/18 "2012-06-29T17:27:08Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > According to a Pew Research Center Study released December 2, 2010, in Egypt 82 percent of Muslims favor stoning adulterers, 77 percent favor whipping or cutting off the hands of robbers, and 84 percent favor the death penalty for Muslims who leave the Islamic faith. > > [Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/) Strange how even the educated people are blinded by islam. I was watching a youtube video showing policemen shooting dead a petty thief in karachi, a comment from a paki read - they shouldn’t have killed him. They should have chopped his hands off as per sharia.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/19 "2012-06-29T18:50:50Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Strange how even the educated people are blinded by islam. I was watching a youtube video showing policemen shooting dead a petty thief in karachi, a comment from a paki read - they shouldn’t have killed him. They should have chopped his hands off as per sharia.:smack: Are you sure it was a “paki” and not a nigger, spic, or kike? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173/20 "2012-06-29T19:09:40Z")
Yes, quite sure. _Paki_ used in short for Pakistani, not in a derogatory sense.🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-egyptian-israeli-relations/626173.md?page=2)