# What is the future of small arms technology? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919 "2013-02-10T23:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/1 "2013-02-10T23:59:20Z")
First of all, this is not another Second Amendment debate. This is meant to be a technical discussion. My question is what is the future of small arms like handguns, rifles, and military smallarms? Mostly incremental changes to design, materials or ergonomics? Smart munitions and advanced optics? Lets keep it to weapons firing ballistic projectiles, not exotic sci fi stuff like laser rifles, phasers and phased plasma rifles in the 40kw range. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/2 "2013-02-11T00:27:16Z")
The next big step will be smart ammo, like this: > **[New Army Rifle Fires Laser-Guided Smart Bullets With Onboard Targeting Chips](https://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/smart-bullets/)** > > It would be hard to describe a bullet as smart, but what if that bullet was laser-guided, radio-controlled, and carried an onboard targeting CPU? The US Army has announced the creation of the XM25 rifle, which can fire a new type of explosive round... ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/3 "2013-02-11T01:58:01Z")
And smart targeting like the [“lock and launch” system](http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2013/01/15/Rifle-targeting-system-spotlighted/UPI-44121358280373/) that automates firing solutions for whatever target you designate, supposedly turning any rifleman into a sniper. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/4 "2013-02-11T02:13:09Z")
I’ll put money on lighter/stronger materials, and improvements in propellants. If you can make a lighter weapon, with lighter ammo, with the same ballistic qualities, you’ll have happier troops. “Smart technology” is expensive, and I don’t know if I see the US fielding those systems to the average grunt until the costs come way, way down. Tripler I like my light rifle. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/5 "2013-02-11T02:34:43Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > I’ll put money on lighter/stronger materials, and improvements in propellants. If you can make a lighter weapon, with lighter ammo, with the same ballistic qualities, you’ll have happier troops. > > “Smart technology” is expensive, and I don’t know if I see the US fielding those systems to the average grunt until the costs come way, way down. > > Tripler > I like my light rifle. This runs up against a problem however: to do damage a bullet has to be either heavy, fast (meaning lots of propellant), or a combination of the two, so you don’t want to reduce ammunition weight too much. And while making a rifle lighter sounds nice, the point is reached where the gun doesn’t have enough mass to adequately soak up the recoil from the bullets. There might be room for improvement but ultimately if you’re using kinetic projectiles there’s only so far you can go. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/6 "2013-02-11T02:36:02Z")
Caseless ammo is pretty much the near-term revolution. Although the HK G11 had a type of caseless ammo years ago, it hasn’t ever caught on in any appreciable fashion. I expect that to change in the very near future- transport costs will be lower, ammo costs will ultimately be lower, and gun actions will be simpler. What’s not to like? In the longer haul, I imagine it’ll be continuing use of exotic alloys and composites in guns and barrels, as well as better optics and targeting electronics. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/7 "2013-02-11T05:42:12Z")
I can envision some kind of optical target recognition software, that prevents the gun from firing at targets recognized as “friendly.” Someone proposed something similar, where the gun wouldn’t fire unless there was a very definite target there at all. Why waste shots shooting between people, or over their heads, if you can have your targeting scope wait for a certain shot? (A friend of mine wrote about this in a sci-fi story. He called it “murder helper,” because it increased the lethality of a mass-murder public-shooting situation.) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/8 "2013-02-11T05:45:49Z")
Possibly some sort of HUD targeting system, which will provide shooters with a FPS-type targeting reticle on their goggles, showing where the rifle is pointed (and perhaps also taking factors like range and wind into account as well). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/9 "2013-02-11T12:55:46Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > This runs up against a problem however: to do damage a bullet has to be either heavy, fast (meaning lots of propellant), or a combination of the two, so you don’t want to reduce ammunition weight too much. And while making a rifle lighter sounds nice, the point is reached where the gun doesn’t have enough mass to adequately soak up the recoil from the bullets. There might be room for improvement but ultimately if you’re using kinetic projectiles there’s only so far you can go. Yeah, I figured there was a reason they have been using 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammo for 40 years. There is only so much you can change the parameters of a ballistic projectile to improve performance. ---
**Author:** ![Shiloh2013](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@Shiloh2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiloh2013)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/10 "2013-02-11T13:27:12Z")
Some might argue, but there have really been few advancements in the last 100 years. The same .30-30 and .30-06 rounds that were popular then, are popular now. I don’t see how you can keep the question out of politics. If there were to be a real advancement, it would quickly be made illegal for civilians. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/11 "2013-02-11T13:28:52Z")
I am sure fingerprint/biometric technology is on the horizon for handguns and law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Shiloh2013](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@Shiloh2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiloh2013)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/12 "2013-02-11T13:31:14Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I am sure fingerprint/biometric technology is on the horizon for handguns and law enforcement. Perhaps, but I wasn’t thinking of that as technology of the firearm per se. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/13 "2013-02-11T14:09:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Caseless ammo is pretty much the near-term revolution. Although the HK G11 had a type of caseless ammo years ago, it hasn’t ever caught on in any appreciable fashion. > > I expect that to change in the very near future- transport costs will be lower, ammo costs will ultimately be lower, and gun actions will be simpler. What’s not to like? > > In the longer haul, I imagine it’ll be continuing use of exotic alloys and composites in guns and barrels, as well as better optics and targeting electronics. Caseless ammo has one serious drawback: the casings actually serve a useful purpose, absorbing heat from the chamber and promptly ejecting it from the gun. Overheating is exacerbated in caseless ammo designs. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/14 "2013-02-11T14:13:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > This runs up against a problem however: to do damage a bullet has to be either heavy, fast (meaning lots of propellant), or a combination of the two, so you don’t want to reduce ammunition weight too much. And while making a rifle lighter sounds nice, the point is reached where the gun doesn’t have enough mass to adequately soak up the recoil from the bullets. There might be room for improvement but ultimately if you’re using kinetic projectiles there’s only so far you can go. The Russians have been working on some type of recoil reducer that uses a counterweight piston to negate the push back. But I don’t think they’ve had much success. There’s also the concept of better cushioning materials to manage recoil. The idea is for not eliminating recoil per se, but of mitigating it’s effect on accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/15 "2013-02-11T14:29:48Z")
Whatever it is, it will be too late to help the poor [T. Rex](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=651936). ☹ ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/16 "2013-02-11T14:30:43Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > Some might argue, but there have really been few advancements in the last 100 years. The same .30-30 and .30-06 rounds that were popular then, are popular now. > > I don’t see how you can keep the question out of politics. If there were to be a real advancement, it would quickly be made illegal for civilians. Military weapons are under no such restriction. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Caseless ammo has one serious drawback: the casings actually serve a useful purpose, absorbing heat from the chamber and promptly ejecting it from the gun. Overheating is exacerbated in caseless ammo designs. I suppose a that could be mitigated by using space-age polymers that disipate heat. Caseless ammo also has the technical challenge of finding a propellent that can be molded into shapes, is hard enough not to chip or crumble, is stable enough to not explode or cook off if mishandled and burns completly on ignition. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/17 "2013-02-11T18:47:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I can envision some kind of optical target recognition software, that prevents the gun from firing at targets recognized as “friendly.” > > Someone proposed something similar, where the gun wouldn’t fire unless there was a very definite target there at all. Why waste shots shooting between people, or over their heads, if you can have your targeting scope wait for a certain shot? (A friend of mine wrote about this in a sci-fi story. He called it “murder helper,” because it increased the lethality of a mass-murder public-shooting situation.) As I understand it, the vast, vast majority of shots fired in wartime is suppressing fire. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/18 "2013-02-11T20:06:03Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I can envision some kind of optical target recognition software, that prevents the gun from firing at targets recognized as “friendly.” > > Someone proposed something similar, where the gun wouldn’t fire unless there was a very definite target there at all. Why waste shots shooting between people, or over their heads, if you can have your targeting scope wait for a certain shot? (A friend of mine wrote about this in a sci-fi story. He called it “murder helper,” because it increased the lethality of a mass-murder public-shooting situation.) Bad idea. The most obvious countermeasure would be to disguise yourself as something that was not recongized as “hostile target” or put up decoys that are. At the very least you would want the weapon to “dumb” fire at whatever you point it at. Optical recognition software and small guided projectiles already exist in at least a developmental form. And “smart guns” are a classic sci-fi trope (remember Gene Simmon shooting his guided rocket pistol at Tom Selleck in Runaway?). I’m sure it’s only a matter of time until the technology reaches a point where weapons with some sort of active targeting and guidence exist IRL. > [@JSexton](#): > > As I understand it, the vast, vast majority of shots fired in wartime is suppressing fire. I would suspect so. Much combat occurs at ranges of several hundred yards between camoflaged opponents using cover. My WAG is that the low ratio of combat casualties to rounds fired is due to the fact that it’s very hard to hit something you can barely see a couple hundred yards away while shit is exploding around you. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/19 "2013-02-11T21:50:30Z")
The elimination of the Human component. Small, cheap Infantry Robots. Then, Skynet… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/20 "2013-02-11T22:37:29Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Military weapons are under no such restriction. > > I suppose a that could be mitigated by using space-age polymers that disipate heat. > > Caseless ammo also has the technical challenge of finding a propellent that can be molded into shapes, is hard enough not to chip or crumble, is stable enough to not explode or cook off if mishandled and burns completly on ignition. I remember reading that the original caseless ammo also had problems absorbing moisture from the air and becoming, at best, unreliable and, at worst, one long, gluey block of explosive with bullets attached to it. Has that been resolved? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919.md?page=2)