# What is the future of small arms technology? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919 "2013-02-10T23:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/41 "2013-02-13T07:06:27Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > [Gyrojet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet) Well, the idea was worth a shot then - now that stabilization is easier, mayhaps a re-visit? At least my ideas are sound, now to adjust the time-frame… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/42 "2013-02-13T16:02:53Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Overzealous gaming geek friends of mine back in the 80’s did way too much research on possible weapons for Twilight 2000, and found some studies which showed that laser weapons have big, big problems, one of the primary ones being that a laser powerful enough to deliver enough energy to a human target to kill it before said human can pull out a rifle and shoot you with a bullet is also powerful enough to blind anybody looking at the target with reflected light if the shooter happens to hit anything made of metal. Permanently. So, everybody on your side needs to wear special goggles that block that frequency of light, which only helps if the OTHER side is also using the same frequency of light in THEIR laser rifles. If you’re on different frequencies, in any engagement, whoever fires first wins. There are a lot of problems with the physics of user lasers as a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/43 "2013-02-13T17:38:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > There are a lot of problems with the physics of user lasers as a weapon. Yeah, just ask the enemy. Tripler ::rimshot:: ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/44 "2013-05-18T13:43:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Batteries like that will lead to the biggest revolution in infantry warfare since gunpowder, though. Laser pistols, portable railguns, power armor… the technology is all there, just waiting for a power source. What is power armor? Do you mean an exoskeleton to help with strength and stamina, or do you mean some kind of armor that can use a power source to better defend against projectiles. I’m reviving this thread because the HUD/Trackingpoint technology some people were talking about is now hitting the market. The HUD sniper rifle is $22,500. It is supposed to calculate (for you) about 20 variables like range, wind, coriolis effect, humidity, etc. > **[Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](https://news.yahoo.com/)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. You tag a target and the gun calculates the variables to determine if you are aiming at it in a such a way you will hit it. If you are, the sights turn red and the trigger guard is released. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/LvbyAcYjzlc/hqdefault.jpg "Archive (2012) - PGF Demonstration") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvbyAcYjzlc) It isn’t self aiming, but it is assisted aiming. South Korea has a self aiming machine gun that can hit targets from 3km away. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3ygFeywrvjc/hqdefault.jpg "Automated Machine Gun Targets People from 1.5 miles") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ygFeywrvjc) > **[South Korea's autonomous robot gun turrets: deadly from kilometers away](https://newatlas.com/korea-dodamm-super-aegis-autonomos-robot-gun-turret/17198/)** > > If there's one place you don't want to be caught wandering around right now, it's the demilitarized zone that separates North and South Korea. Especially since South Korean military hardware manufacturer DoDAMM used the recent Korea Robot World 2010... I’m sure making these devices mobile will come up soon. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/45 "2013-05-18T14:08:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s why it’ll be near-term! The advantages are huge if the technical kinks can be worked out. > > How much of your average round’s weight is the cartridge case? How much of the production cost? How much money do the cartridge cases cost the military to ship a million rounds of ammunition to Afghanistan? How many weapon malfunctions are due to failures to extract or eject the cartridge case? > > All of these can be mitigated to some extent with a move to caseless ammo. Very true. But I’m dubious that a caseless ammo which is both cost-effective and safe to handle can be made. (And in a sense, it would be as much going backward in design as going forward - the very first firearms made used loose black powder, after all. What’s that saying? “Everything old is new again”?) Caseless ammo and biometric guns which will only fire for an authorized user are the only two really revolutionary technology changes I can foresee for small arms anytime soon. Like the bow and arrow that **msmith573** mentioned earlier, small arms are a very mature technology. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/46 "2013-05-18T15:14:40Z")
I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if more bullpup style assault rifles crept in. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/47 "2013-05-18T17:29:59Z")
I suppose those rifles that are rigged to fire around corners are too mundane to include here. They were billed as being useful in urban combat zones. Does anyone else remember this? ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/48 "2013-05-18T18:31:32Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I suppose those rifles that are rigged to fire around corners are too mundane to include here. > They were billed as being useful in urban combat zones. > > Does anyone else remember this? Like the [OICW](http://www.oocities.org/bairdj/oicw.htm)? In its earlier iterations, it was a combination of a video-scoped rifle and a helmet-integrated HUD that could: - Identify and track human-shaped targets on the HUD a la [Virtua Cop](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=951&q=virtua%20cop&=&oq=&gs_l=) - Display the riflecam on your HUD so you can see around corners/from behind cover, exposing only your arm - Using a laser rangefinder, determine distance to enemy cover and program an explosive projectile to airburst right next to the cover (with its electronically timed fuse) - Switch riflecam vision modes to various zoom levels and thermal imaging Eventually it was dumbed down to the XM29, which was an airbursting grenade launcher only. Then it was cancelled altogether. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/49 "2013-05-18T21:15:49Z")
I’m thinking that within two years, we’ll have remote control quadrocopters outfitted with a camera and something comparable to a handgun. It’s another case of “the tech already exists but the batteries suck”, but it seems quite useful to me. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/50 "2013-05-18T21:46:24Z")
Barrel pressure limits seem to be around 60 000 PSI for rifles. Is that limit pretty much a hard one? Barrels, chambers and back-of-the-chamber-blocking-devices that can take more pressure mean you can afford a higher pressure spike which means you can attain the same velocity with a shorter barrel. A big stumbling block when it comes to small arms technology is that the military is usually the impetus behind the advancement and today’s militaries seem to be pretty much content with the current assault rifles. Any significant change when it comes to internal, flight or terminal ballistics requires a caliber change and the bother this implies requires that the objective of improving small arms be a priority. On the other hand, aiming devices advancements are popular among civilians and a lot of military personnel have some discretion over it. If a military wishes to upgrade its aiming devices, it’s a lot less of a bother than changing calibers. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/51 "2013-05-18T22:25:06Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > I’m thinking that within two years, we’ll have remote control quadrocopters outfitted with a camera and something comparable to a handgun. It’s another case of “the tech already exists but the batteries suck”, but it seems quite useful to me. I have this suspicion that the more militarily forces become reliant on remote-controlled devices, the more common jamming and hacking will become. I can see a future in which battlefields are so over-saturated with disruptive electromagnetism that forces will be forced to communicate with flags and bugles. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/52 "2013-05-19T00:18:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have this suspicion that the more militarily forces become reliant on remote-controlled devices, the more common jamming and hacking will become. I can see a future in which battlefields are so over-saturated with disruptive electromagnetism that forces will be forced to communicate with flags and bugles. This is a good point. And it reminds me of the snickers I got from some of my squad when I’d tell them “Boots & Saddles, get busy!” ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/53 "2013-05-19T03:37:29Z")
I also believe that bullpup designs should be creeping in. A barrel length that allows full powder expansion in a compact package. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/54 "2013-05-19T08:51:33Z")
Some years back I read an article about the Army evaluating several assault rifles looking for the next standard issue gun to replace the M-16. Their goal was to double the amount of hits as a ration of total rounds fired. Can’t recall who submitted entries, but none seemed particularly innovative. All simply doubled the rate of fire, one or two of them by actually putting two guns and two barrels into a single body, and the others by some other modifications to the works including things to reduce recoil and make the guns easier to keep on target. At the time of the article, none of the nominee replacements performed impressively enough to put into general use. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/55 "2013-05-19T17:23:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Some years back I read an article about the Army evaluating several assault rifles looking for the next standard issue gun to replace the M-16. Their goal was to double the amount of hits as a ratio of total rounds fired. I don’t suppose fire discipline and marksmanship is an option? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/56 "2013-05-19T19:11:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Caseless ammo is pretty much the near-term revolution. Although the HK G11 had a type of caseless ammo years ago, it hasn’t ever caught on in any appreciable fashion. > > I expect that to change in the very near future- transport costs will be lower, ammo costs will ultimately be lower, and gun actions will be simpler. What’s not to like? > > In the longer haul, I imagine it’ll be continuing use of exotic alloys and composites in guns and barrels, as well as better optics and targeting electronics. Now they can “print” handguns, those and caseless ammo will make murder commonplace, never mind needing to be body searched before flying, in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/57 "2013-05-19T19:53:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I don’t suppose fire discipline and marksmanship is an option? :rolleyes: Of course not. More training doesn’t get them new toys. The toys have to be miraculous and do the work for the soldier. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/58 "2013-05-19T19:57:24Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Now they can “print” handguns, those and caseless ammo will make murder commonplace, never mind needing to be body searched before flying, in the future. The guns that can be printed are single shot pistols. You can make a zip gun out of pipe and have been able to do so for years with tools from Home Depot. I think the printed gun is overrated. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919/59 "2013-05-21T15:07:08Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The guns that can be printed are single shot pistols. You can make a zip gun out of pipe and have been able to do so for years with tools from Home Depot. I think the printed gun is overrated. Give it time. Pistols used to be single shot muzzle loaders. The real danger with printed guns is of course that they can’t be picked up by metal detectors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-future-of-small-arms-technology/649919.md?page=2)