# What is the greatest decline in sports? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 28, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878 "2005-09-28T16:56:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/61 "2005-09-29T15:46:01Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Curt Schilling Doesn’t Schilling get a pass under the injury exemption? > [@Innuendo Hunter](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why do you hate Kurt Warner? And more importantly, why do you feel a lot of other people hate him too? I can only speak for myself, but I have two reasons: (1) Super Bowl XXXIV, where I lost $50, and (2) “principle.” There is just something about him – perhaps it is the Jeebus factor? – that rubs me the wrong way. (I believe my father hates Warner because of Dick Vermeil, but I am only 95% sure of that.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/62 "2005-09-29T15:54:19Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Serena Williams She hasn’t been in shape for about a year, mostly because of injuries, but she still managed to win the Australian Open in January. I think the biggest dropoff in home runs from one season to the next still belongs to the Mets’ Howard Johnson. He hit 38 in 1991, and then hit 7, 7, 10 and 7 in his final four seasons from '92-'95. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/63 "2005-09-29T16:13:04Z")
I’m not claiming the names I posted definitely qualify, I was more offering them up for discussion. I didn’t realize Serena won a slam this year. Obviously, that disqualifies her. And Schilling with the injury gets a pass as well. Pedro was mostly griping about the overall sucktitude of the Amazingly-Bad Mets. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/64 "2005-09-29T16:29:48Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > I didn’t realize Serena won a slam this year. Obviously, that disqualifies her. I think so. Still, if she never returns to form, between her injuries and questions about her priorities, people will be left wondering how much more she could have done - which is saying something, given that she’s already won 7 Slam titles and held all four at once. ---
**Author:** ![Thrillhouse15](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@Thrillhouse15](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thrillhouse15)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/65 "2005-09-29T20:23:08Z")
> [@Innuendo Hunter](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why do you hate Kurt Warner? And more importantly, why do you feel a lot of other people hate him too? > > I’ve never heard anything about his character that would make a lot of people hate him, although maybe I missed something. The guy went from box boy to NFL MVP. Pretty cool in my book. “Hate” may have been too strong a word. I dislike him about as much as I dislike any other athlete, although I like him a lot more than people like Pierre Pierce or Leonard Little. I think, as others have noted, his pushy brand of Christianity bothers me. He seems like a nice guy, but I’d never want to meet him personally because I’d expect every sentence he’d say to me to start with, “You know, Jesus loves you.” Another part of it stems from my time living in St. Louis, surrounded by obnoxious bandwagon Rams fans (the majority of whom didn’t even know St. Louis had a team until 1999). Those are the major reasons I don’t like him. Grocery sacker to MVP is a great story, but there are too many other things about the guy that I can’t stand. And I do know quite a few people who feel the same way. And I know a lot of people who love the guy, too. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/66 "2005-09-29T20:37:32Z")
Colavito was beaned? Are you sure you’re not thinking of Tony Conigliaro? > [@Rainbowthief](#): > > Rocky Colavito was never the same after he was beaned. ---
**Author:** ![Mdr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mdr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdr)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/67 "2005-09-29T20:39:57Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I really mean sudden decline that happened to an individual in sports. > > Has there ever been an elite player in a sport who, with no injury, just “lost” their talent very suddenly? by the looks of the last 3 wks it looks like Chad Henne had his brain removed. Does he qualify? ---
**Author:** ![Innuendo\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Innuendo\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Innuendo_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/68 "2005-09-29T20:45:05Z")
10-4, I forgot about that, although it doesn’t really bother me personally. It seems that I temporarily forgot where I posting, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/69 "2005-09-29T21:13:51Z")
Does going off of steriods count as ‘injury’? ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Albert\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albert_Rose)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/70 "2005-09-29T21:24:40Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Jay Williams. > (oooo. going to hell for that one.) At least you didn’t say Thurman Munson. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/71 "2005-09-29T21:49:37Z")
> [@Mdr](#): > > by the looks of the last 3 wks it looks like Chad Henne had his brain removed. Does he qualify? Dude, it’s Michigan, it’s not like he ever had a brain to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/72 "2005-09-30T03:14:29Z")
For hockey, I would have to mention [Jimmy Carson](http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=845). As a 20 year-old with the L.A. Kings in 1987-88, he had a 55 goal, 107 point season and was regarded as such a future superstar that he was the centerpiece of the trade that sent Gretzky to L.A. After a strong season in Edmonton (49 goals, 100 points), he was traded to the Detroit Red Wings for 4 players. While the Oilers got key contributions from those players to win their post-Gretzky Stanley Cup, Carson just fell apart. His goal totals over the next few years were 20-21-34-25-12-11. 1994 was his last full season in the NHL and he was completely out of hockey by age 30. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/73 "2005-09-30T03:17:32Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > For hockey, I would have to mention [Jimmy Carson](http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=845). As a 20 year-old with the L.A. Kings in 1987-88, he had a 55 goal, 107 point season and was regarded as such a future superstar that he was the centerpiece of the trade that sent Gretzky to L.A. > > After a strong season in Edmonton (49 goals, 100 points), he was traded to the Detroit Red Wings for 4 players. While the Oilers got key contributions from those players to win their post-Gretzky Stanley Cup, Carson just fell apart. > > His goal totals over the next few years were 20-21-34-25-12-11. 1994 was his last full season in the NHL and he was completely out of hockey by age 30. I was about to cite Carson. I always wondered what happened to him. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/74 "2005-09-30T03:53:14Z")
I recall reading an article years ago about a golfer who won one of the majors back in the 40s or 50s. While at the movies he saw newsreel footage of his victory and decided that his swing looked ugly. In his attempts to remodel it he completely lost his striking ability and never won again. Any idea who this poor sap was? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/75 "2005-09-30T06:03:07Z")
Bob Massie. For those who follow cricket. ---
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/76 "2005-09-30T06:06:10Z")
It’s a slight highjack, but perhaps some New Englanders here can tell me: was there every any explanation given on what happened to Jim Rice? His career fell off the table a lot like Dale Murphy’s. The guy was such a stud, my favorite non-Dodger, looked like a first ballot HOFer. My theory was that Rice suddenly decided (or was instructed) to hit for average, changed his stance and everything, had that one .324 season – looked like a very defensive hitter that year – and then was done. Did he ever give an interview or anything explaining it? As a slo-pitch softball player, I say I have contracted Jim Rice syndrome. I went from a free-swinging power hitter to a singles hitter for a couple seasons because of teammate pressure and now I generally stink. (I also have passed 40, gotten married and had a child, but I still blame it on the choice to go for base hits.) ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/77 "2005-09-30T08:38:54Z")
Bjorn Borg is worth a mention in this thread. In 1981, at the age of 25, he had won five straight Wimbledon titles ('76-80) and six French Open Championships. In 1982 he disappeared from the sport. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/78 "2005-10-02T22:38:52Z")
And in a stunning example from today, Dante Culpepper. Apartently it all was Randy Moss. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/79 "2005-10-03T12:35:03Z")
> [@Murcielago](#): > > Bjorn Borg is worth a mention in this thread. In 1981, at the age of 25, he had won five straight Wimbledon titles ('76-80) and six French Open Championships. In 1982 he disappeared from the sport. Dang, you stole my submission. 🙂 All right, since I know nothing about all these weird sports you guys practice there in the colonies (;)), let me introduce a new sport: motor racing. More specifically, Formula One. And my submission for the Driver Who Lost it Quickly would be the one and only Nigel Mansell. After an eventful 10-odd years in the F1 paddock, racing for various teams and often fighting for the championship, Nigel Mansell finally won the F1 Championship in 1992. His team boss Frank Williams put a bit of a damper on his joy, however, having already announced that Nigel would not have a seat for 1993, champion or not. So, Nige pissed off to America, where he won the 1993 CART series, seemingly without even trying hard. In 1994, the Newman-Haas outfit wasn’t nearly as competitive, so after the tragic demise of Ayrton Senna in Formula One, Mansell didn’t have to think too hard about the offer to share that vacant seat with up-and-coming star David Coulthard. He even managed to win the season closer in Australia, which was not a bad performance seeing as he had a) big shoes to fill (Senna), and b) had to alternate with David Coulthard for a few races. What some had thought impossible at the end of 1992 happened anyway: Nigel was offered a full time seat in F ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878/80 "2005-10-03T12:50:29Z")
… anyway. Nige got a full time seat in F1 once more in 1995. Not with Williams, but with McLaren F1. Williams (in hindsight, wisely) opted for the young and talented Coulthard. Why on earth Ron Dennis thought Ol’ Mansell (aged 39 at the start of the 1995 season) was a good partner for the rising star of Mika Hakkinen, no one knows to this day. But he got his contract. The McLaren proved to be a tad narrower than the Williams, though, as far as cockpits go. The slightly chunky Brit didn’t fit into the 1995 McLaren! It took both driver and team four races into the 1995 season before there was a match (countryman Mark Blundell filled his seat in the meantime). When Mansell finally did race, it only took an abysmal 10th place and an early retirement for the team to realise their mistake: Blundell retook the seat (with Jan Magnussen driving the Japanese GP). Mansell never raced again in F1, although he enjoyed a few competitive years in the British Touring Car Championship. But his last convulsions on the F1 stage will be remembered as one of the most embarrassing displays in the history of the sport. Nigel just didn’t know when to quit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-greatest-decline-in-sports/323878.md?page=5)