# What is the GWB legacy among Republicans/conservatives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980 "2010-04-05T03:03:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/21 "2010-04-05T19:27:45Z")
> [@Creole\_Tomato](#): > > Because people had sat down so many times while he put tight political allies, with little training, interest, or experience into other positions. (See Michael “Brownie” Brown.) > > It’s kind of like the Tiger Woods fiasco…the longer you get away with something, the bolder you get about it. Unfortunately, even after Bush’s cronyism “hit the tree” he didn’t seem to get it. (See Julie Myers.) I think Bush’s cronies used the political litmus test for nonpolitical jobs - like asking candidates for Iraq duty about their views on abortion. But not Bush himself. Meiers got more flack from the right than the left. This, I admit, was because the left didn’t have to say anything. Bush, since he couldn’t tell a competent person if he bit him, worked on friendship not ability. Meiers was a friend and companion, so of course she was qualified for the Supreme Court. Remember how he sent his political aide from Texas (I forget her name) to the Middle East to do pr for us? That was another joke. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/22 "2010-04-05T19:33:39Z")
**'Bandit** , great post. IANAC either, but I agree with most of what you’ve said. I was pro-OEF, against OIF (especially continued) but understand why things went as they did. I have many buddies in the IC: to a man they don’t think the books were cooked, they think that everyone actually thought Saddam had WMD. We’ve all seen the quotes from the Dems on that topic, if not, here’s a quickie [rundown.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp) And as Colin said, it’s a Pottery Barn situation now, we couldn’t just call a mulligan post-invasion. About the only domestic issue the conservatives liked, I think, was his position on federal funding of stem cell research (ie, don’t fund it). I happen to disagree with that stance, but hey, he was president, he calls the ball. As for Iraq, I think it’s crazy to try to determine the success or failure at this point. If in 10-15 years that country looks like Turkey and is a stabilizing influence in the ME, then he’ll look like a genius (not to mention the fact that playing an ‘away game’ with Al Qaida pretty much got us 8 yrs with no successful domestic attacks… not sure what odds you could have gotten on that, on 9/12/2001, but I imagine they’d have been pretty long) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/23 "2010-04-05T20:55:29Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Bush pushed through big government not because he suddenly turned liberal, but because that’s a very conservative thing to do: get more power to force everyone to have conservative values. That’s how you guys work. You lie on and on about small government, but what you really want is to use government to force everyone else to have the same views as you. [You’re not allowed to call other posters liars in Great Debates.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632) This is a warning not to do this again. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/24 "2010-04-05T22:10:21Z")
The way a lot of Republicans viewed and now view Bush is kind of strange. I heard that while he was running, that the national leadership wasn’t too fond of him, but they figured better him than a Democrat. Once in office though, they backed him up 99% of the time, with immigration and I think raising taxes on smokers to fund SCHIP being the only two things I remember them having major disagreements over. Then, once he’s out of office there’s all this talk about how he wasn’t a real conservative, or at least a real fiscal conservative. So, he’s grudgingly accepted, totally beloved, and then kind of thrown under the bus by most conservatives. I have a feeling in general that amongst conservatives and Republicans that he’ll have a mixed review. As for me personally (moderately conservative, Republican but currently unhappy with the party), when he first ran for office and I didn’t know much about him, I liked what little I knew. After getting into office I was through with him before his first term was out. Pretty much every decision he made kept making me like him less and less. So I’ll remember him as a very bad president. Even worse than Clinton (that’s right, you heard me!:mad::D) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/25 "2010-04-05T22:19:06Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > They did have WMD’s, though not in the form and readiness we thought, but that was the _casus belli_, not the fundamental reason for the war. The reason were the larger piolitical and global issues at stake, and the need to fundamentally alter the political dynamics of the MidEast. It has done that, and at a far lesser cost than any other possible method. If you wish to claim it was not worth it, that’s a debate for another time. Yet I recall that more than a few Dopers claimed it was a failure early, and then repeated that, and that Bush simply changed things as neccessary in order to fix it every time. This is, without a doubt, the most astonishing post I’ve ever read here. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/26 "2010-04-06T00:04:12Z")
I wonder what the opinion would be if he had managed to hold off the crash until after he left office. Probably pretty good - after all, everyone liked Coolidge, though the Great Depression started less than a year after he left office. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/27 "2010-04-06T01:03:52Z")
I think while he was not a great President he was a President who tried his best and a President willing to do unpopular things (such as the Surge). Overall I think his legacy on the nation has been positive especially with the addition of a conservative Supreme Court Judge on the USSC. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/28 "2010-04-06T01:27:58Z")
Middle East politics have indeed been fundamentally _altered_, no point in denying _that_. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/29 "2010-04-06T01:44:26Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Mine: > > He spent too much > Government grew > Too much Democrat, not enough conservative… > > Ok the last line was just a jab. Yes, because we all know that deficits grow under Democrats and the government shrinks under Republicans (except in the reality-based world of course). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/30 "2010-04-06T12:37:28Z")
> [@](#): > > we all know that deficits grow under Democrats It certainly has under the latest one. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/31 "2010-04-06T14:07:49Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > . . . especially with the addition of a conservative Supreme Court Judge on the USSC. Two, actually – Roberts and Alito. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/32 "2010-04-06T15:16:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It certainly has under the latest one. > > Regards, > Shodan As Obama said: “they go out the next morning look at the seeds and say ‘see nothing yet’”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/33 "2010-04-06T16:14:08Z")
> [@](#): > > What is the GWB legacy among Republicans/conservatives? Betting pool on when a Fox News story will include the caption “Former President George W. Bush (D)”? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/34 "2010-04-06T17:05:36Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > I think Bush did a good job as president. Obviously, not as good as I would have, but good nonetheless. A president’s main purview is foreign policy and that is where he did the most good. The global war on terror has international terrorists on the run. It is too soon to declare Iraq a success or failure, but things seem to be trending the right way. He did a good job in Afghanistan, quickly and with a outside of the box strategy. He solidified our alliance with India, one of the most important countries in the world. He mostly stayed out of the Israel - Palestinian conflict, and things are looking better their because of it. There is so much wrong packed into these statements that it beggars belief that you might actually be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/35 "2010-04-06T18:55:21Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > As Obama said: “they go out the next morning look at the seeds and say ‘see nothing yet’”. Obama is lying about that, too - the federal debt is growing by something like $4 billion a day. But you to be congratulated on your agility with which you flip-flop. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/36 "2010-04-06T19:05:54Z")
You are to be congratulated on your ability to use a completely unrelated thread to take a shot at Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/37 "2010-04-06T22:39:47Z")
You would have to take that issue up with **DanBlather**. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/38 "2010-04-07T00:09:33Z")
Several conservatives I know use the No True [del]Scotsman[/del] Republican argument: yeah, he wasn’t that great of a Conservative, but just wait until we get a real Conservative in office! ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/39 "2010-04-07T01:09:17Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Several conservatives I know use the No True [del]Scotsman[/del] Republican argument: yeah, he wasn’t that great of a Conservative, but just wait until we get a real Conservative in office! Socially he may have been conservative, except on immigration, but how was fiscally conservative? The conservative ideal is to reduce spending and shrink government, and he spent like there was no tomorrow and grew the government. Except for closing all those military bases. Traditionally conservatives grow the military. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980/40 "2010-04-07T01:10:00Z")
Lead insane Iraq invasion/occupation. Failed to secure the border. Good Supreme Court appointees. Helped fuel subprime market by pressuring banks to lower lending criteria. Introduced misguided No Child Left Behind Act. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-gwb-legacy-among-republicans-conservatives/534980.md?page=3)