# what is the Heraclitean fire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-heraclitean-fire/133469 "2002-10-23T02:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![caffeine\_overdose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@caffeine\_overdose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caffeine_overdose)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-heraclitean-fire/133469/1 "2002-10-23T02:58:50Z")
After about 15 minutes of googling all I could find was a reference to a poem and a philosopher. Also what is the proper usage of entering the Heraclitean fire ---
**Author:** ![Melandry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Melandry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melandry)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-heraclitean-fire/133469/2 "2002-10-23T03:23:01Z")
I’m afraid I don’t quite understand what you’re specifically getting at in reference to the usage of entering the Heraclitean fire, but here is some background that you might find helpful: Yes, [Heraclitus](http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/h/heraclit.htm) was an ancient Ionian philosopher. Greatly simplified, he believed that fire was the primary element of nature. He identified it with flux or flow in nature, that is, constant change. The link above provides a very thorough and much more complex analysis of his thought. [Here](http://www.thebigview.com/greeks/heraclitus.html) is one that is a bit more introductory. The phrase “Heraclitean Fire” seems to be most frequently associated with [this](http://www.bartleby.com/122/48.html) Gerald Manley Hopkins poem. It’s also the title of a [book](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0874700299/weisstein-20/103-0153367-0964631) by Erwin Chargaff. As for “entering the Heraclitean fire” I too can’t locate any exact usages of that phrase, and I don’t know what it is connected to off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-heraclitean-fire/133469/3 "2002-10-23T03:28:08Z")
[http://www.thebigview.com/greeks/heraclitus.html](http://www.thebigview.com/greeks/heraclitus.html) > [@](#): > > Heraclitus held that fire is the primordial element out of which everything else arises. Fire is the origin of all matter; through it things come into being and pass away. Fire itself is the symbol of perpetual change because it transforms a substance into another substance without being a substance itself: “This world, which is the same for all, no one of gods or men has made; but it was ever, is now, and ever shall be eternal fire.” and: “Fire lives the death of air, and air lives the death of fire; water lives the death of earth, earth that of water. Measures of it kindling and measures of it going out.” (Diogenes Laertius) > > Like Anaximander, Heraclitus sees a cosmic balance in the struggle of the elements, water, air, fire, earth. Due to the eternal transmutation of forms, which are made of the elements, no single element ever gains predominance. This implies that Heraclitus thinks of fire as a non-destructive; but merely transforming power. The process of transformation does not happen by chance, but is, according to Heraclitus, the product of God’s reason -logos-, which is identical to the cosmic principles. > > When Heraclitus speaks of God, he doesn’t mean the Greek gods, neither a personal entity. Instead he thinks that God is living in every soul and even in every material thing on earth. The fiery element is the expression of God in everything, thus he is in every sense a pantheist. > > Another of Heraclitus’ main teachings can be called the “unity of opposites”. The unity of opposites means that opposites cannot exist without each other - there is no day without night, no summer without winter, no warm without cold, no good without bad. To put it in his own words: “It is wise to agree that all things are one. In differing it agrees with itself, a backward-turning connection, like that of a bow and a lyre. The path up and down is one the same.” Comparing the convergence of opposites with the contrary tension of a bow and a lyre is perfectly in harmony with his theory of flux and fire. ---
**Author:** ![Melandry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Melandry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melandry)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-heraclitean-fire/133469/4 "2002-10-23T03:32:23Z")
Yeah, that’s from the second link I provided. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-heraclitean-fire/133469/5 "2002-10-23T03:37:23Z")
Wow, pre-socratic philosophy classes DO have practical application! I can answer GQ questions now! Heraclitus wrote what we have now as a series of fragments, sentences. There are debates about whether or not they should be ordered. Many did have to do with fire, as what **Melandry** and **astro** posted is absolutely true. It is also important to note that, in some interpretations, fire for Heraclitus **was** change, so maybe that’s what you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-heraclitean-fire/133469/6 "2002-10-23T13:45:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by caffeine\_overdose \* > \*\*After about 15 minutes of googling all I could find was a reference to a poem and a philosopher. Also what is the proper usage of entering the Heraclitean fire \*\* Here I was thinking hmmmm if you rub her the right way she might feel like Heraclitean fire. 😃 :eek: 😃 :eek: Bad drach, mind out of gutter…better yet, wheres my wife 😃