# what is the highest level of technology possible in a fantasy story? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 4, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947 "2003-03-04T05:48:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/41 "2003-03-05T10:52:34Z")
Just thought of another one. Jack L. Chalker’s \* Soul Rider \* series. Without going into too much spoiler, the first 2 1/2 books read like pure fantasy. Then you find out that everything has a scientific backing. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/42 "2003-03-05T12:26:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fugazi \* > \*\*Just thought of another one. Jack L. Chalker’s \* Soul Rider \* series. Without going into too much spoiler, the first 2 1/2 books read like pure fantasy. Then you find out that everything has a scientific backing. \*\* And I remember reading the series as it came out and being shocked to my shoes when the big revelation …of the names of the Anchors was revealed. One of the few times I was actually that surprised by a plot twist Overall a good series. But avoid book 4. :yuk: ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/43 "2003-03-05T13:40:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > **Storm Constantine writes a sort of gothic fantasy.** “Storm Constantine”? Did her D&D characters write any other books? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/44 "2003-03-05T14:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*A friend of mine once had a “story universe” (that’s what we amateur writers who never get anything published call it…) that was, essentially, a typical fantasy - elves, dragons, dwarves, magic, wizards, mana, etc. - with spaceships. Mana Cores were used for power, starships fired guns that used magic spells to attack, dragons had GIGANTIC starships that were the terror of the universe, etc. > > It was pretty cool. Similar to Calvin’s “Tyranosaurs in F-16’s!” idea. \*\* No offense to your friend, but that sounds like the plotline to a Final Fantasy game. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/45 "2003-03-05T15:11:31Z")
**I can imagine a lot of fantasy/SF universes that would be nice to live in, but living in the Dune universe would be only slightly more pleasant than Orwell’s 1984.** Thank you for saying that, it saved me the trouble. A lot of medieval fans say they like it because it was a time when everyone had a place in society and knew it. My strong suspicion is that what they are leaving out is that in their fantasies, they are at or near the top of the society, and isn’t it great that all the peasants know their place? My favorite fantasies are ones in which the writer uses real world elements to give their fantasy elements some rigor, which translates into strength. Frex, Piers Anthony had a series – where magical abilities were shared by humans and less than humans including animals and plants, and were governed by the rules of ecology. It’s too had he’s such a fucking hack and had to ruin it with the his sappy characterizations and feeble plotlines. Charles de Lint’s reimagining of mythic creatures in urban settings might be pretty good if he could dump that Renfair/twee shit and get down with his stories. Tim Powers is probably the best at this right now. His “Declare” is nothing short of brilliant – it theorized that the heart of the Cold War between Russia and the U.S. was the struggle to wrest control of a group of afrits stranded on top of Mount Ararat in Turkey. It theorized that Kim Philby was involved, and the whole story was told from the POV of a U.S. compatriot of Philby’s. The killer was that the story was designed so that it offered an alternative explanation for and in no way contradicted all the known facts in Philby’s life. Sort of a cross between a John LeCarre novel and an H.P. Lovecraft story. Except that Powers is a better writer than either Lovecraft or LeCarre. Part of what made Roger Zelazny’s Courts of Chaos was the rules he developed for the way magic worked in Amber and Chaos and all the alternate worlds in between. I find that when writers rely on generic, well-known magical devices, their stories tend to be flabby and dull, it’s when they think carefully about how magic might really function in their worlds that it gets good. ---
**Author:** ![Sock\_Munkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Sock\_Munkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sock_Munkey)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/46 "2003-03-05T17:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > \*\*Then you need to reread Dune. It goes a lot deeper than that. > \*\* I’m perfectly aware of the subtlety and depth of the story, that doesn’t redeem its’ barbaric society. ---
**Author:** ![Isaac\_Cashman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9a28c/32.png) [@Isaac\_Cashman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaac_Cashman)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/47 "2003-03-12T20:56:04Z")
1. I challenge any pyrotecnician to do the finale of Bilbo’s Eleventy First Birthday. 2. White light is all the colors: Knowledge/Good enough glass to make a prism. Gunpowder clearly tech. Taters and Tobacco: Mere details/ So what?. To insist that they can not have been lost to Europe after the beginning of the 4th age is not logical. ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/48 "2003-03-12T21:07:09Z")
When I was in grade school I watched _Thundarr the Barbarian_ on Saturday mornings. Sword and sorcery with high tech computers and technology. I was very impressed with it when I was 12. And _Dune_ is the perfect example, I wish I had thought of it. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/49 "2003-03-13T02:33:22Z")
L. E. Modesitt with his Recluse series has kind of a steampunk setting. Magic is based on order and chaos, and technology is limited by how much order or chaos is involved. Usable steam engines can only be made by black wizards (order magic), because normal steel isn’t strong enough to withstand the stress. Firearms are only used if there is no danger of facing a white wizard (chaos), otherwise the gunpowder can be set off by the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/50 "2003-03-13T14:39:11Z")
Gene Wolfe’s _Book of the New Sun_ series is set in a seemingly fantasy world which is really far in the future. Iain M. Banks’ _Inversions_ looks like a fantasy novel but people who have read other of his works will recognize it as belonging in his extremely high-technology Culture universe. Roger Zelazny’s _Creatures of Light and Darkness_ and _Lord of Light_ are also very interesting mixes of fantasy and technology. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/51 "2003-03-14T02:59:45Z")
I don’t remember the title or author because I just happened to browse it in a bookstore, but: The setting is maybe a hundred years or so in the future. The theme is that materials technology has advanced to the point that nobody uses iron for anything anymore. Nanofiber is stronger for building skyscrapers and suspension bridges, superconductors make better magnets, plastics are cheaper for everyday items, etc. As a result, actual bulk metallic iron no longer exists outside of museums and antique stores. And it turns out that all kinds of magical creatures that iron is a charm against are now free to return, so elves, goblins, etc start showing up all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/52 "2003-03-14T07:21:05Z")
Sharon Shinn’s _Archangel_ has humans and angels living in a fantasy style environment on a planet (no magic, but low technology). Except that, unknown to them, their “God” is actually a spaceship up in orbit. ---
**Author:** ![Isaac\_Cashman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9a28c/32.png) [@Isaac\_Cashman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isaac_Cashman)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/53 "2003-03-14T21:35:13Z")
Two points: Both tradition and logic tend to make the political/social system of fantasy feudal/hierachacal. 1. The concept that "any sufficently advanced _magic_ is indinguishable from technology tends to mean that if you advance the tech to some level it ain’t really fantasy anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947/54 "2003-03-14T22:54:24Z")
I’d add _Lucius Shepard’s_ Life During Wartime. 21st century warfare, but definitely fantasy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-highest-level-of-technology-possible-in-a-fantasy-story/158947.md?page=2)