# What is the latest "lost" major movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 7, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225 "2005-10-07T17:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/21 "2005-10-08T07:11:40Z")
Blind Rage > **[Blind Rage (1976) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077243/fullcredits)** > > Blind Rage (1976) cast and crew credits, including actors, actresses, directors, writers and more. In work we valets pass around possibly the only known VHS copy of this film because our supervisor, Joe Meyers, was IN the movie! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/22 "2005-10-08T08:58:19Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I don’t think there were any newreel cameras on the beach at D-Day. Not from the commercial newsreel services, but there were many motion picture cameramen in uniform. From London’s Imperial War Museum: > [@](#): > > The task of making a visual record of D-Day for the British authorities was given to the Film and Photographic units of the Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force. Although some experienced technicians were recruited, the Army in particular selected its cameramen from among serving soldiers. They were invited to volunteer if they had any peacetime experience of film or photography, however slight. They were all given the rank of sergeant. No. 5 Section of the Army Film and Photographic Unit covered the Normandy landings. It was 40-strong and was sent over in two-man units consisting of a cine and a still cameraman. Although the equipment used was cumbersome by today’s standards, the skill and commitment of members of the AFPU and other Allied cameramen and photographers produced a unique record of one of the most significant events of the war. Hollywood director [John Ford](http://www.thefilmjournal.com/issue12/ford.html) was there as head of the Photographic Department of the Office of Strategic Services. Unfortunately for the U.S. Armed Forces cameramen, much of their footage of the first day was lost. The exposed film magazines were collected at the end of June 6 to be sent back to England for processing, when the entire collection accidentally dropped into the sea as it was being transferred. To get back to the original question, the last features from the major Hollywood studios to be lost are: **Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer** _[The Rogue Song](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0021307/)_ (1930), with Metropolitan Opera star Lawrence Tibbett, who received an Oscar nomination as Best Actor. The entire soundtrack exists from this Technicolor picture, as does an advertising trailer, and one badly preserved clip of a comedy scene with Laurel and Hardy. **Paramount** _Leave It to Lester_ (1930), starring minor comic Lester Allen. Besides being lost today, there is no evidence that it was ever released, which is really another category of film — the never released. _[Jealousy](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0021301/combined)_ (1929), one of only two talkies made by legendary stage actress Jeanne Eagels. Her co-star was screen newcomer Fredric March. **Warner Bros.-First National** _[Convention City](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0023906)_ (1933), starring Joan Blondell, Adolph Menjou, Dick Powell, and Mary Astor. _[Children of Dreams](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0021740)_ (1931), from a musical by Sigmund Romberg and Oscar Hammerstein II. Musicals from 1929-1931 have a bad survival record. Early musicals look more creaky than other films from that period, and my theory is that so many were lost to decay because no television prints were struck in the 1950s that might have preserved them. **Fox** [Charlie Chan’s Courage](Charlie Chan’s Courage) (1934). Most of the original negatives of Fox’s pre-1935 output were destroyed in a storage facility fire in 1937. Exhibition prints were then called in from film exchanges to serve as replacement masters, but this and two other Charlie Chan features were among those for which no print was found. **RKO Radio** _[Freckles](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0026381/)_ (1935), starring Tom Brown and Virginia Weidler. One of several versions of Gene Stratton Porter’s novel; as often happens when a film is remade, the earlier version is allowed to languish. **Universal** _[Fast Companions](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0022881)_ (1932), starring Tom Brown, James Gleason, and Maureen O’Sullivan. Was Tom Brown the kiss of death for film preservation? **Columbia** _[Speed Demon](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0024304)_ (1932), starring William Collier, Jr. In addition to these, many if not most of the foreign-language versions of Hollywood features, shot with alternate casts, that were made in 1929-1933 do not survive. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/23 "2005-10-08T09:48:49Z")
Moved to CS. - **xash** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/24 "2005-10-08T15:37:28Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The OP asked about movies. But a lot of important television broadcasts are lost. Among those which no longer exist: > > The first commercial American television broadcast in 1939 with Franklin Roosevelt opening the World’s Fair > Harry Truman giving the first Presidential address from the White House > The first Super Bowl in 1967 > The first NFL championship game in 1951 > Don Larsen’s perfect World Series game > Johnny Carson’s first _Tonight Show_ (along with most of Steve Allen’s shows) > Early BBC concerts by The Beatles > Over half of the original _Honeymooners_ episodes > _Hound of Heaven_, a 1953 TV movie featuring James Dean > Several years worth of early _Dr Who_ episodes > The entire run of Ernie Kovac’s first series, _Time to Get Ready_ > Pretty much every episode of game shows and soap operas from the 40s and 50s and many from the 60s And those, folks, are just the highlights. Before the beginning of Kinescope recording in 1948, we have _less than 10 minutes_ of surviving TV broadcasting. Most of these were done by a [videodisc](http://www.tvdawn.com/) process so primitive that it was 60+ years before they could be played back. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/25 "2005-10-08T19:38:33Z")
Five of those ten minutes of surviving pre-1948 television are from a 1939 NBC broadcast of the play [_The Streets of New York_](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0405352/), which exists as a silent, 16mm film. For those curious about how kinescope films were made, [here](http://www.tvhistory.tv/KinescopeMachine.JPG) is a 1953 photo of the RCA Kinephoto machine. The kinescope (picture tube) is on the left; the 16mm camera is on the right. At the bottom left is the kinescope with its housing taken off. Although videotape recorders were introduced in [1956](http://www.cedmagic.com/history/ampex-commercial-vtr-1956.html), the first few broadcast-quality models were enormously expensive: [$50,000](http://www.tvhistory.tv/VCR%20History.htm), or $345,000 in today’s dollars, and a 90-minute reel of videotape cost [$307](http://web.bryant.edu/~ehu/h364proj/fall_97/gabriel/1956.html) ($2,118). And so kinescope films continued to be made by the networks as late as 1969 for the smaller affiliated stations that didn’t have broadcast-quality videotape equipment but wished to time-shift a program from the network showing. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/26 "2005-10-08T20:13:07Z")
Correction to my last post: a 35-minute reel of 2-inch videotape cost $875. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/27 "2005-10-08T20:23:15Z")
Correction to my correction: A 35-minute reel of 2-inch videotape cost $307. (It was 875 yards long.) ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/28 "2005-10-08T20:23:18Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > **Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer** > _[The Rogue Song](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0021307/)_ (1930), with Metropolitan Opera star Lawrence Tibbett, who received an Oscar nomination as Best Actor. The entire soundtrack exists from this Technicolor picture, as does an advertising trailer, and one badly preserved clip of a comedy scene with Laurel and Hardy. There’s a second clip known to exist of a dance routine from the film. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/29 "2005-10-08T23:39:26Z")
The original, full-length cut of _It’s A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World_ is lost. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/30 "2005-10-08T23:57:26Z")
> [@Boardwalk Elvis](#): > > By “lost” are you referring to films that are no longer in existence (destroyed, deteriorated film, or misplaced), or films that are not commercially available? Or both? I was referring to the former. The latter are not lost, just sitting in someone’s vault (like the “lost” Honeymooners episodes of the 50s) Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/31 "2005-10-08T23:58:19Z")
[Dinah East](http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt0190364/) (1970) isn’t commercially available and prints may or may not exist. It’s about an Hollywood actress who’s actually a man. Mae West sued (she thought it was about her) and the film was pulled from theatres and she tried to have all prints destroyed. I’ve seen clips so at least some footage exists. Does that 10 minutes of pre-1948 TV include Hitler’s Olympic broadcast from '36? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/32 "2005-10-09T00:00:16Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > BTW, isn’t this topic better suited for Cafe Society? I was considering putting it in CS, but since it was a question that had a factual answer, rather than asking for an opinion or review of the movies. Therefore, I decided to put it in GQ. I see, however, that **xash** overruled me. 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/33 "2005-10-09T01:20:47Z")
The original widescreen print of Transformers The Movie (1986) is lost. I don’t know if that counts. Supposedly someone owns a pieced together copy from various prints though. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/34 "2005-10-09T01:34:26Z")
In keeping with just talking about lost films instead of very recent but lost films as the OP asked for, I have to mention Murnau’s **4 Devils**. There’s a really neat reconstruction on the _Sunrise_ DVD, with stills and storyboards and text and all that, but the film no longer exists in any form. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/35 "2005-10-09T01:53:29Z")
I guess I’d like to see the lost ‘spider sequence’ from the original \*\*_King Kong_ \*\*. But I guess that’s gone forever, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/36 "2005-10-09T01:59:15Z")
Thus far and no mention of Colin McKenzie, the pioneering NZ director whose entire _oeuvre_ {apart from a few fragments of **Salome** } has been lost to posterity? For shame! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/37 "2005-10-09T04:01:11Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Does that 10 minutes of pre-1948 TV include Hitler’s Olympic broadcast from '36? Although there are several hours of film footage of the 1936 Summer Olympics (notably, Leni Riefenstahl’s two-part documentary _Olympia_), I have never heard that any recording of the television broadcasts exists. With only 180 lines of resolution, it was reportedly difficult to discern what was going on. [More](http://www.tvhistory.tv/1936%20German%20Olympics%20TV%20Program.htm) on television at the 1936 Summer Olympics. [_Popular Wireless_](http://www.tvhistory.tv/1936%20QF.htm) article. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/38 "2005-10-09T15:27:30Z")
Awhile back some German academic did find _film_ programs made _to be shown on_ the Berlin TV station in the mid '30s (some Olympic related, too, IIRC). He used them as part of a typical [media-theory paper](http://www.let.uu.nl/~william.uricchio/personal/SWEDEN1.html), unique only in that it was about programming in a pre-mass medium era. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/39 "2005-10-09T23:31:56Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The OP asked about movies. But a lot of important television broadcasts are lost. Among those which no longer exist: > > The first commercial American television broadcast in 1939 with Franklin Roosevelt opening the World’s Fair > Harry Truman giving the first Presidential address from the White House > The first Super Bowl in 1967 > The first NFL championship game in 1951 > Don Larsen’s perfect World Series game > Johnny Carson’s first _Tonight Show_ (along with most of Steve Allen’s shows) > Early BBC concerts by The Beatles > Over half of the original _Honeymooners_ episodes > _Hound of Heaven_, a 1953 TV movie featuring James Dean > Several years worth of early _Dr Who_ episodes > The entire run of Ernie Kovac’s first series, _Time to Get Ready_ > Pretty much every episode of game shows and soap operas from the 40s and 50s and many from the 60s Not sure why you would consider game shows to be a big loss. I’ll add to your list: The pilot episode of _Sgt Bilko._ The first 2 seasons of _Callan_ Most of season 1 of _The Avengers_ A large chunk of _Not Only But Also_ Some important lost movies: The piefight in _Doctor Strangelove_ The original end to _The Magnificent Ambersons_ Hitchcocks first few movies are either lost or only part survive. - Number Thirteen - The Mountain Eagle - Always tell your wife ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225/40 "2005-10-10T00:36:08Z")
Pretty much everything done by silent film comedian [Raymond Griffith](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0341586/bio) has been lost due to neglect. I did manage to see his film Hands Up![/COLOR]]([http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v\_id=21385](http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=21385)[COLOR=Navy) in a film class. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-latest-lost-major-movie/325225.md?page=3)