# What is the legal reasoning that 'allows' ending birthright citizenship? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335 "2025-01-24T16:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/81 "2025-06-28T00:12:57Z")
That’s part of where the problem lies - I don’t know what other countries without birthright citizenship do , but here, at least at first, it’s going to require that everyone claiming their US born child is a citizen will have to go through a similar process as citizen children born abroad - at least one parent will have to prove their citizenship and the baby will be issued either a passport or some other documentation. At birth - how many more state department employees will that require? Can’t have the states issue something because the EO prohibits recognizing documents issued by states. Pam Bondi [couldn’t](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/27/us/politics/birthright-bondi-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare) answer questions - since it was supposed to go into effect months ago, one would think they had a plan for enforcement. If they actually expected to ever be able to enforce it. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/82 "2025-06-28T00:16:25Z")
Yes, but lots of people who weren’t born in the US are citizens , either because they were naturalized or because they were born to a citizen abroad . My cousin was born in Iceland - she’s a citizen because her father is one. But her kid’s birth records will say she was born in Iceland. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/83 "2025-06-28T00:28:53Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So where is the determination made that the child is not eligible for a US passport? When they apply. That’s why you have to send in your birth certificate to the Department of State. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I didn’t know that one’s birth certificate listed the birth place of one’s parents. > [@Zoobi](#): > > They don’t County of Los Angeles does. One issue is that as per the Dred Scott decision, a state cannot confer United States citizenship, merely state citizenship (now residency). I do not believe the 14th Amendment changes that. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/84 "2025-06-28T00:30:22Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > or because they were born to a citizen abroad > If you are a U.S. citizen and your child was born overseas, you should report their birth to the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate as soon as possible so that a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) can be issued as an official record of the child’s claim to U.S. citizenship or nationality. > > A CRBA documents that your child was a U.S. citizen at birth. The CRBA neither serves as proof of the identity of the child’s legal parents. The name or names listed on the CRBA include the parents who have a genetic or gestational connection to the child. The parent(s) passing the U.S. citizenship to their child must have their names(s) on the CRBA. A parent passing U.S. citizenship may approve the other parent, who is not passing citizenship, to have their name on the CBRA. > > Note: An CBRA applications must be filed before the child’s 18th birthday. Parents are advised to apply for the CRBA as soon as possible after the child’s birth. > [CBP Customer Service](https://www.help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-1440?language=en_US#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20a%20U.S.,to%20U.S.%20citizenship%20or%20nationality). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/85 "2025-06-28T00:33:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > So where is the determination made that the child is not eligible for a US passport? > > When they apply. That’s why you have to send in your birth certificate to the Department of State. I’m really not trying to be difficult but the birth certificate will show a birth in the United States without, presumably, indicating _anything_ about birthright citizenship. So even a child born of undocumented parents would receive a birth certificate and on that basis could receive a passport. (Heck, even a child born to a woman here on a tourist visa would have a birth certificate that may say nothing of the citizenship of their parents. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/86 "2025-06-28T00:35:51Z")
It depends where you are: 3000+ counties, 3000+ rules. Mind does, and there’s only one form, not short / long or birth certificate vs certificate of birth. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/87 "2025-06-28T00:37:30Z")
So would an end to birthright citizenship require the cities/counties/states that issue birth certificates to change their processes to collect citizenship or visa status of the parents? Are they willing to acquire that burden? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/88 "2025-06-28T00:37:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m really not trying to be difficult but the birth certificate will show a birth in the United States without, presumably, indicating _anything_ about birthright citizenship. [8 USC 1401](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401) tells us who are citizens at birth (a) a person born in the [United States](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=8-USC-2032517217-1201680101&term_occur=999&term_src=), and subject to the jurisdiction thereof; So a birth certificate showing birth in the United States is prima facie evidence that one is a natural born citizen. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So would an end to birthright citizenship require the cities/counties/states that issue birth certificates to change their processes to collect citizenship or visa status of the parents? Arguably no. The BC simply records the circumstances of the birth. It would be a different process to establish NBCship and I presume a birth certificate would be part of the documentation. The other part would be showing that at birth you were “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” and ain’t nobody, including MAGAs, have any clue what that would be. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So even a child born of undocumented parents would receive a birth certificate and on that basis could receive a passport. Yes because they are under current law a citizen so why couldn’t they get a passport? ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/89 "2025-06-28T00:37:51Z")
You are correct. What I meant to say was that it wasn’t always listed, especially for state issued ones. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/90 "2025-06-28T00:44:17Z")
My point was you can’t just look at a child’s birth record to determine if one or both parents are citizens. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/91 "2025-06-28T00:44:27Z")
I’m not sure if you’re saying that’s a problem _now_, or under Trump’s EO. If it’s the later, nobody has any idea how this will work. Especially Trump. I don’t know how I’d prove my citizenship if I had to. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/92 "2025-06-28T00:47:14Z")
Yes, I am trying to understand how things would work in the situation that birthright citizenship no longer exists. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/93 "2025-06-28T00:52:44Z")
Well birthright citizenship will still be around provided you are subject to the jurisdiction thereof. So the first thing we need to know is under Trump is who is not subject to the jurisdiction in his definition thereof like children born to diplomats are currently. Would we exclude children of illegal immigrants? Children of non-citizens with lawful residence? Children of tourists? > [@steronz](#): > > If it’s the later, nobody has any idea how this will work. Especially Trump. I don’t know how I’d prove my citizenship if I had to. I have my passport which is the golden ticket for proving citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/94 "2025-06-28T00:53:45Z")
I mean we know who Trump and the Republicans mean. It’s not a mystery. Because the Republicans will be enforcing it and deporting based on it, what they mean is the only thing that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/95 "2025-06-28T00:56:14Z")
> [@Zoobi](#): > > I mean we know who Trump and the Republicans mean. It’s not a mystery. Then it’s easy. Show your birth certificate and documentation that your parents had lawful residence in the United States at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/96 "2025-06-28T00:57:33Z")
Lol sure. If you can do that in time and to the satisfaction of ICE. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/97 "2025-06-28T01:00:26Z")
If you can, you’re a fool if you are not gathering the docs already. And have copies in you possession and duplicates in a safe place. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/98 "2025-06-28T01:01:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Well birthright citizenship will still be around provided you are subject to the jurisdiction thereof. So the first thing we need to know is under Trump is who is not subject to the jurisdiction in his definition thereof like children born to diplomats are currently. Would we exclude children of illegal immigrants? Children of non-citizens with lawful residence? Children of tourists? I am wondering about the not subject to the jurisdiction argument. Would those people therefore have diplomatic immunity? Can they freely violate criminal laws? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/99 "2025-06-28T01:03:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Then it’s easy. Show your birth certificate and documentation that your parents had lawful residence in the United States at the time. How on earth would that be documented? I don’t talk to either of my parents. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-reasoning-that-allows-ending-birthright-citizenship/1013335/100 "2025-06-28T01:05:55Z")
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