# What is the legal staus of the moon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180 "2001-11-25T20:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/1 "2001-11-25T20:51:12Z")
I know that there have been some similar topics on this subject, but what exactly do those treaties we signed in the sixties say? If I were to land on the moon and set up a little summer cottage would I be under any legal jurisdiction? Is it similar to Antarctica? how does it work there? Can I just go and claim a chunk for myself? Who would stop me? BTW, I am working under the assumption that any companies selling deeds to the moon, venus, mars, etc. are liars and braggarts. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2001, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/2 "2001-11-25T21:02:41Z")
The moon is currently under a restraining order, prohibiting it from coming closer than 200,000 miles to the earth. It is expected that over time, it will be allowed to come closer. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2001, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/3 "2001-11-25T21:31:04Z")
Here are the treaties: [Treaty On Principles Governing The Activities Of States In The Exploration And Use Of Outer Space, Including The Moon And Other Celestial Bodies](http://www.unog.ch/frames/disarm/distreat/space.htm) (1967) [Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies](http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/SpaceLaw/moon.htm) (1979) The US and Russia have not ratified the 1979 treaty. Besides, now that the cold war is over we’re under no obligation to abide by these outmoded relics. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Vic\_Ferrari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/dbc845/32.png) [@Vic\_Ferrari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vic_Ferrari)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/4 "2001-11-25T21:39:17Z")
According to the 1967 [Declaration of Legal Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space](http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/SpaceLaw/lpostxt.htm) you could set up a cottage on the moon but you would not legally own that portion of the moon. According to the treaty the moon and other celestial bodies may not be claimed by nations. I imagine this rule will apply until someone figures out something worthwhile to do on the moon and then all bets are off. The treaty also outlaws war on the moon. :rolleyes: I suspect it will be just as effective as a treaty outlawing war on earth would be. ---
**Author:** ![Ace\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Ace\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace_Face)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/5 "2001-11-26T00:49:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*The moon is currently under a restraining order, prohibiting it from coming closer than 200,000 miles to the earth. It is expected that over time, it will be allowed to come closer. \*\* Naw, the moon is legally a dependent, slowly slipping away from its doting parent. ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/6 "2001-11-26T07:14:36Z")
Many nations own a peice of antarctica. I saw a map somewhere of it, you could probably find one on google. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/7 "2001-11-26T07:18:01Z")
Many nations say they own pieces of Antarctica, but the United Nations and many major powers (such as the U.S. and Russia) don’t recognize any claims. Since there is no permanent population in Antarctica and no commercial exploitation of it yet, the claims don’t matter much. ---
**Author:** ![ssj\_man2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ssj\_man2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ssj_man2k)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/8 "2001-11-26T07:22:25Z")
Oh i see. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to make a fur trade off of penguins 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/9 "2001-11-26T07:40:21Z")
Dear Lord… After skiming those documents it is no wonder Ayn Rand thought civilization was about to collapse. Wanna know why we are not on the moon, or why space has not been developed to any degree? It is crap like this: \*Article II Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means. Article X In order to promote international co-operation in the exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, in conformity with the purposes of this Treaty, the States Parties to the Treaty **shall consider on a basis of equality** any requests by other States Parties to the Treaty to be afforded an opportunity to observe the flight of space objects launched by those States. The nature of such an opportunity for observation and the conditions under which it could be afforded shall be determined by agreement between the States concerned. Article XII All stations, installations, equipment and space vehicles on the moon and other celestial bodies shall be open to representatives of other States Parties to the Treaty on a basis of reciprocity. Such representatives shall give reasonable advance notice of a projected visit, in order that appropriate consultations may be held and that maximum precautions may be taken to assure safety and to avoid interference with normal operations in the facility to be visited. \* Thank God we did not sign the second one. It is actually worse. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/10 "2001-11-26T07:49:16Z")
Actually I suspect the real reason is cost, and lack of political will. Gorby suggested that the US and the Soviet Union jointly put a man on Mars, but Ronnie Reagan vetoed it. Too expensive, no point. Those treaties merely make it carte blanche until someone works out a better set of laws of space. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/11 "2001-11-26T11:33:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ssj\_man2k \* > \*\*Oh i see. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to make a fur trade off of penguins 😛 \*\* That would be difficult, seeing as how they’re birds. As for the Moon, wasn’t Japan planning a lunar colony a couple of years ago? ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/12 "2001-11-26T13:33:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vic Ferrari \* > **According to the 1967 [Declaration of Legal Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space](http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/SpaceLaw/lpostxt.htm) you could set up a cottage on the moon but you would not legally own that portion of the moon.** Somebody send this declaration to Mr Dennis Hope, please! He reckons _he_ owns the Moon, Mars, Venus, and a bunch of other celestial bodies: [Lunar Embassy](http://www.lunarembassy.com/lunar/index_e.shtml). “The sale of lunar property has been ongoing for 20 years by the Lunar Embassy, which are THE ONLY COMPANY in the world to posess a legal basis and copyright for the sale of lunar, and other extraterrestrial property within the confines of our solar system.” There’s still a thriving market for snake-oil, apparently. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![geepee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ebca7d/32.png) [@geepee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geepee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/13 "2001-11-26T16:23:20Z")
Well UN and international law may say that no one nation can lay claim to real estate other than the earth , but then I haven’t really seen an UN space cruisers to enforce this. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/14 "2001-11-28T03:41:11Z")
That’s because the UN Space Cruisers are all disguised as the aforementioned penguins. That’s why there’s no fur trade… don’t believe this hogwash about feathers. It also explains why none of those countries is able to enforce it’s claim on Antarctic soil :eek:! ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/15 "2001-11-28T06:02:42Z")
Are those Veritech Alpha Penguins or Veritech Beta Penguins? ---
**Author:** ![puk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ea5d25/32.png) [@puk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puk)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/16 "2001-11-28T09:02:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jinty \* > Somebody send this declaration to Mr Dennis Hope, please! He reckons _he_ owns the Moon, Mars, Venus, and a bunch of other celestial bodies: [Lunar Embassy](http://www.lunarembassy.com/lunar/index_e.shtml). > > “The sale of lunar property has been ongoing for 20 years by the Lunar Embassy, which are THE ONLY COMPANY in the world to posess a legal basis and copyright for the sale of lunar, and other extraterrestrial property within the confines of our solar system.” There’s still a thriving market for snake-oil, apparently. :rolleyes: You realise this is a joke, right? {prepares to get whooshed} ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/17 "2001-11-28T18:32:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \* > \*\*Dear Lord… > > After skiming those documents it is no wonder Ayn Rand thought civilization was about to collapse. > > Wanna know why we are not on the moon, or why space has not been developed to any degree? > > It is crap like this: > > \<\\> > > Thank God we did not sign the second one. It is actually worse. \*\* Oh, come on. This was in '67. This was when people still believed that constructing missile bases to fire nukes at enemies from the moon was a good idea. Oh, and I almost forgot. The US considered nuking the moon in '58 as a show of superiority. They had fallen behind in the Space Race and were far behind the Russians in developing long-range nuclear missiles. Let’s just say that there was a different mentality regarding space travel back then. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2001, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/18 "2001-11-28T19:07:40Z")
It’s up in the air. Thanks, I’m here all week! [sub]yes, I know it’s in a vacuum. Geezus. Tough crowd…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-legal-staus-of-the-moon/95180/19 "2001-11-29T20:21:47Z")
The moon is an unoccupied territory belonging to the Quellan Dependency, but that claim is challenged by the Hegemon of the Transgalactic Confederation, who claims it in trust for his underage nephew, the Archduke of Venus. Needless to say, the Hegemon’s claim isn’t taken seriously by galactic opinion.