# What is the logic behind being ok with alcohol and tobacco and not with marijuana? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243 "2006-05-10T16:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RumbleFeature](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@RumbleFeature](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RumbleFeature)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/1 "2006-05-10T16:55:46Z")
Some statistics for causes of death in the year 2000 Tobacco- 435,000 Deaths Alcohol- 85,000 Deaths Incidents Involving Firearms- 29,000 Marijuana- 0 Deaths Now many conservative I have known were of the belief that the first 3 on that list were god given rights, while the last was nothing less than social devinancy. What I want is an explanation of the flow of logic in those beliefs. I was considering putting this in GQ since what I really want is an explanation of a view and not actual debate on the issue, but I opted for GD instead because of where this may lead. I am not classifying this view as a collective conservative view, but in my experience with the conservatives I know this is the case. Once again I don’t really want debate but rather the logic behind being a proponet of Tobacco, Alcohol, and Firearm legality and mot Marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/2 "2006-05-10T17:05:48Z")
Marijuana is not completely harmless, so the “0 deaths” figure is probably too low. (It is rougher on the throat than tobacco is.) However, I agree. There is also the irony of conservatives wanting the government out of their lives, but wanting the government to put those damned drug fiends behind bars for long prison terms. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/3 "2006-05-10T17:09:49Z")
I do not see this as conservative vs liberal (except as it has been shaped by the politics of the Right over the last few years). Initially it was simply that marijuana was used by “other” people (with dark skins) and the mythology surrounding it got into the political mainstream. I do not believe that any current conservative who opposes decriminalizing marijuana does so for racist reasons. (And there are many conservatives who do support decriminalization.) However, between its “traditional” negative connotations and the fact that it was embraced by the counterculture (Left) in the 1960s, it now tends to be seen as a conservative position, regardless (not because) of its early racist origins. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/4 "2006-05-10T17:20:44Z")
Not everyone is “okay” with alcohol and cigarettes. Our own government essentially outlawed alcohol for several years, until it turned out to be counterproductive and unworkable. Maybe we are right now in the process of discovering that a marijuana ban is also counterproductive and unworkable. Tobacco, on the other hand, seems to be getting more stigmatized all the time, not less. That could mean that bans could come back in style. It’s not just a cut-and-dried example of conservative hypocrisy as you seem to suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/5 "2006-05-10T17:21:55Z")
Part of the difference is that alcohol and tobacco are already legal…enough people use them, they’re a large enough industry, that outlawing them now would have some pretty big economic and social consequences. Marijuana, on the other hand is illegal now. If tobacco or alcohol were just “discovered” today, they’d probably be made illegal too, but it’s just a general rule, I think, that it’s a lot easier to maintain the status quo than to change it. ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/6 "2006-05-10T17:29:11Z")
Maybe we need to frame this so that they can jump on board: “Yeah, but if we created a marijuana industry… just think of all the undocument… err… low-wage workers we could employ.” ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/7 "2006-05-10T17:47:11Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Part of the difference is that alcohol and tobacco are already legal…enough people use them, they’re a large enough industry, that outlawing them now would have some pretty big economic and social consequences. Marijuana, on the other hand is illegal now. If tobacco or alcohol were just “discovered” today, they’d probably be made illegal too, but it’s just a general rule, I think, that it’s a lot easier to maintain the status quo than to change it. Except… that’s true **today**. But there’s the old joke, how back in the '20-s the cops would bust a party with alcohol, then when they got off duty they’d go out and relax with a joint or two. And now, their grandchildren may bust a party with marijuana, then go off duty and head for the pub for a beer… I’ve always heard it as a U.L., but I still sometimes wonder if there is any truth to the story that the textile industry – or was it the cotton growers? – worked to outlaw marijuana as a left-handed maneouvre to stop \*\*hemp \*\*from becoming a competitive fabric. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/8 "2006-05-10T17:51:35Z")
You can grow Weed in your backyard. You cant tax it you cant control selling it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/9 "2006-05-10T18:07:11Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You can grow Weed in your backyard. You cant tax it you cant control selling it. I can set up a still in my back yard too. And, considering that I live in Northern Virginia, I can probably grow tobacco in my back yard. So, I don’t know that that’s a good distinction. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/10 "2006-05-10T18:11:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You can grow Weed in your backyard. You cant tax it you cant control selling it. You can grow tobacco in your back yard (if you have the right climate) and you can create alcholic beverages in your own house. We regulate some of those and not others, but we do not tax that which is not sold, yet marijuana remains illegal despite the tax issue. * * * I have heard the “cotton growers” story, but I suspect that it is not true. If hemp was that much of a threat to cotton, the growers would have siimply switched to hemp in the nineteenth century. (It is not as though hemp was a “Northern only” crop that the South could not have exploited.) Hemp was already in serious decline even for naval stores with the introduction of jute and sisal, long before marijuana was outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![RumbleFeature](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc79bd/32.png) [@RumbleFeature](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RumbleFeature)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/11 "2006-05-10T18:12:12Z")
My friend offers that maybe some don’t see it in terms of deaths caused, but rather see marijuana as a “mind expanding” drug and that in itself is what makes them adverse to it. Even if alcohol is “mind expanding”, becuase of the status quo most people don’t really view it like that. Could it be that some people are just scared of…perceiving different things? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/12 "2006-05-10T18:21:14Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Part of the difference is that alcohol and tobacco are already legal…enough people use them, they’re a large enough industry, that outlawing them now would have some pretty big economic and social consequences. Marijuana, on the other hand is illegal now. If tobacco or alcohol were just “discovered” today, they’d probably be made illegal too, but it’s just a general rule, I think, that it’s a lot easier to maintain the status quo than to change it. I think this is the real reason right here, along with the fact that alcohol and tobacco use are thoroughly woven into our culture. They’re mainstream, whereas marijuana use is something that is (rightly or wrongly) seen as something that’s only done by the fringe elements of society: the hippies, the burnouts, the artsy countercultural types, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/13 "2006-05-10T18:53:43Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > \ > I have heard the “cotton growers” story, but I suspect that it is not true. If hemp was that much of a threat to cotton, the growers would have siimply switched to hemp in the nineteenth century. (It is not as though hemp was a “Northern only” crop that the South could not have exploited.) Hemp was already in serious decline even for naval stores with the introduction of jute and sisal, long before marijuana was outlawed. A good point - especially since hemp is rather easy to grow (or so I am told.) ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/14 "2006-05-10T19:03:03Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I do not see this as conservative vs liberal (except as it has been shaped by the politics of the Right over the last few years). There is a notable difference between levels of support, though. In the Nov 2004 ballot in Alaska to legalize pot, Dems said Yes 56 to 44; Reps 26 to 74. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/15 "2006-05-11T14:53:21Z")
> [@RumbleFeature](#): > > Some statistics for causes of death in the year 2000 > > Tobacco- 435,000 Deaths > Alcohol- 85,000 Deaths > Incidents Involving Firearms- 29,000 > Marijuana- 0 Deaths Can you provide a cite for those figures? Considering that people die from all kinds of things – I’ve seen an incident report where a construction worker fell onot a lunch box and it stopped his heart somehow – we can state with mathematical certainty that “Marijuana- 0 Deaths” is false. Subjectively, I think it’s more than false – I think it’s a deliberate lie. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/16 "2006-05-11T16:01:19Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I think it’s more than false – I think it’s a deliberate lie. It’s disingenuous in that the figure is derived from the lack of documented overdoses. Any excess mortality due to chronic use is not accounted for. As for the lack of acute-use fatalities, I refer you to pages 56-57 (Findings of Fact) in The 1988 court case [ruling](http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_law1.shtml) involving marijuana rescheduling. The CDC has characterized a few deaths as [cannabis-induced](http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/cannabis.htm) and [related](http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/01pot-related.htm). Do read the [investigation](http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/ornot.htm) of the induced deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/17 "2006-05-11T22:11:26Z")
Is it anything more than an accident of history? Alcohol has a long history in western culture. Pot doesn’t. IOW, pretty much what **Thudlow Boink** said. The only other thing I can think of is that alcohol is more of a social drug. It doesn’t cause the introspection and paranoia that pot can sometimes cause. Booze is a good drug for people who want to kick back and shoot the shit after a hard week at work. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/18 "2006-05-12T05:51:35Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > I’ve always heard it as a U.L., but I still sometimes wonder if there is any truth to the story that the textile industry – or was it the cotton growers? – worked to outlaw marijuana as a left-handed maneouvre to stop \*\*hemp \*\*from becoming a competitive fabric. [Here’s](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_131.html) an article where Cecil touches on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/19 "2006-05-12T14:19:06Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Can you provide a cite for those figures? > > Considering that people die from all kinds of things – I’ve seen an incident report where a construction worker fell onot a lunch box and it stopped his heart somehow – we can state with mathematical certainty that “Marijuana- 0 Deaths” is false. Subjectively, I think it’s more than false – I think it’s a deliberate lie. > > Sailboat No, not a deliberate lie. The statistics I’ve read come from marijuana causing ‘natural’ deaths. One can say that not all deaths attributed to alcohol are for merely consuming it, and yes, one can probably find an example where a stoned person drove off a cliff. But did the pot kill them, or did the crash kill them? So I read that stat of zero deaths as being accurate in that pot in and of itself will not kill you. How could marijuana usage cause death? Tobacco is tied directly to various cancers and other diseases (heart, etc). This is a product of the smoke itself and nicotine and/or tars. Just using tobacco can kill you (not will, but can). Alcoholism is a disease and can kill you in a couple of ways. Rotting your liver to making stoopid Darwin award choices, for example. And guns? Well, that should probably not be compared to any of them. With pot, while smoking is the preferred method, it is not the only method of use. One can ingest it. One can also vaporize the THC without igniting the leafy material. Plus, even if it is smoked, the amount one smokes is a small percentage of a normal cigarette habit. Strong pot the size of a pea will get one high - one inhalation can do the trick, and when compared to how many times a cigarette smoker inhales it is ridiculously small. This is why I think the arguments focusing on the strength of pot these days fall flat. Stronger pot is a good thing - it takes less to work. Basically the argument is valid that marijuana in and of itself won’t kill you. One cannot overdose on pot. Eating pot brownies will not give you cancer. It will not stop your heart (although it can increase your heart rate, which could be bad with other conditions). So while it is not safe, it is safer. -Tcat ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243/20 "2006-05-12T16:11:07Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Marijuana is not completely harmless, so the “0 deaths” figure is probably too low. (It is rougher on the throat than tobacco is.) “[R]ougher on the throat” assumes it is being burned and inhaled. More and more people are ingesting tinctures and oil made from cannabis. I’ve been told. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-logic-behind-being-ok-with-alcohol-and-tobacco-and-not-with-marijuana/356243.md?page=2)