# What is the maximum extent to which we are allowed to disagree with transgenderism (on the Dope)? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 19, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807 "2025-03-19T03:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/1 "2025-03-19T03:39:52Z")
Misgendering someone is very much off-limits (and I’ve never misgendered anyone.) Discussion about whether transgender athletes belong in women’s sports is gradually shifting more and more towards “It’s bigoted to say they don’t belong.” ISTM that transgenderism is gradually becoming an issue where, on the Dope, there really is nothing one can debate. It’s either agree-or-out. So - what are we allowed to say - without getting in trouble - that **isn’t** in line with the mainstream Dope consensus/viewpoint? I don’t mean for this thread itself to turn into a debate - we have countless threads about that, and a few such threads, even ATMB threads, resulted in locking just days ago - but rather, asking, ATMB, what the message board itself policy is. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/2 "2025-03-19T03:41:07Z")
Being transgender is not an “ism”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/3 "2025-03-19T03:51:50Z")
These are the current guidelines on discussing transgender related topics on the SDMB: > [@](#): > > **Transgender issues.** Discussions of transgender issues are often fraught and opinions tend to be polarized. Nonetheless, the SDMB believes frank conversation reflecting a wide diversity of views is the surest way to establish common ground. To facilitate such discussion, please observe the following guidelines, which apply to all forums. > > 1. Please do not state or imply that transgender people are mentally ill. We realize the question remains controversial. However, we’re not going to settle the matter here, and raising it tends to poison other discussion of transgender issues. Please keep your opinions on the subject to yourself. > 2. Do not deliberately misgender another poster – that is, refer to them by a pronoun or other sex-specific term indicating a gender other than the one they identify as. This applies only in cases where a poster’s gender identity is reasonably clear. Likewise, do not deliberately misgender off-board figures. > 3. The use of the term cisgender or the prefix cis- to refer to individuals whose gender identity matches their biological sex is not required but can be helpful in avoiding ambiguity when discussing transgender issues. That said, we do not have a code of acceptable gender-related expressions and do not wish to referee terminology. Please be considerate of the feelings of others and avoid needless provocation when using gender-related terms. If you feel others are using gender-related terms or expressions improperly and you wish to correct them, please do so in a civil manner. From [here.](https://boards.straightdope.com/tos) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/4 "2025-03-19T04:16:28Z")
Are you wanting to debate whether or not transgender people exist? Or whether they deserve equal rights? Or…? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/5 "2025-03-19T04:23:15Z")
If you don’t understand, it’s probably best to avoid the topic. Why the fuck would you want to discuss it anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/6 "2025-03-19T04:32:16Z")
Understood. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/7 "2025-03-19T07:03:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So - what are we allowed to say - without getting in trouble - that **isn’t** in line with the mainstream Dope consensus/viewpoint? You are absolutely _allowed_, by the rules as Miller quoted, to say for example, that you believe transgender people are fundamentally immoral. Or say that you believe some percentage of allegedly transgender people are dishonest and are actually sexual predators (without misgendering specific individuals). You would _not_ be shielded from the consequences of such a statement, though, other than moderation of personal attacks outside the Pit. And that’s what it seems our resident transphobes want - to be able to make statements about transgender people without consequence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/8 "2025-03-19T07:04:27Z")
I know what “transgender” means. What do people understand as “transgenderism”? Does that imply standing up for transgender rights or trans people standing up for themselves is some kind of evil ideology? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/9 "2025-03-19T09:12:50Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > What do people understand as “transgenderism”? > > Does that imply standing up for transgender rights or trans people standing up for themselves is some kind of evil ideology? No more than liberalism, progressivism or conservatism are evil ideologies. I would understand it as a common set of beliefs on the subject, ie that everyone has an immutable gender identity and this is what makes them a man, woman, or something else, that people should be treated accordingly in every area of life without regard for aspects of biological sex, and various other things. A person can be transgender without having all of these beliefs, and plenty of cis people endorse them all. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/10 "2025-03-19T09:34:10Z")
Here is the dictionary definition of the -ism suffix: > [@](#): > > a suffix appearing in loanwords from Greek, where it was used to form action nouns from verbs ( _baptism_ ); on this model, used as a productive suffix in the formation of nouns denoting action or practice, state or condition, principles, doctrines, a usage or characteristic, devotion or adherence, etc. ( _criticism; barbarism; Darwinism; despotism; plagiarism; realism; witticism; intellectualism_ ). There is nothing in that definition about “evil”. Let’s not turn ATMB into the Pit or this thread will be closed. If you want to have a pedantic discussion about the word “transgenderism”, ATMB is not the correct forum. We all know what the OP meant. If you want to engage in recreational outrage, take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/11 "2025-03-19T11:01:25Z")
To fight my ignorance? While I am very open and support people being who they want to be I can’t help getting confused about the mix of terms and would like to have a correct understanding. A part of me always goes back to whether they were born with male or female parts, and yes I know some are born with both. It sometimes becomes a sticking point in my understanding. But to your point, if I was really wanting to know more I am certain their are threads here that would help me fucking know more. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/12 "2025-03-19T11:02:09Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Being transgender is not an “ism”. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I know what “transgender” means. > > What do people understand as “transgenderism”? “Transgender” is an adjective. I assume the OP just wanted a noun form of the word. Is there a better word to use? ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/13 "2025-03-19T18:45:05Z")
It isn’t allowed. For reasons that would take either decades of research into the history of the forum, or somehow knowing the individual psychological motivations of the staffers, they won’t just come out and _say_ it’s not allowed, but there will always be a rationale found that disallows any disagreement with maximalist pro-trans positions, and if no existing rule can be invoked, it will just be the usual “this thread is getting out of hand” or “mod note -warning issued” with no elaboration as to what rule was broken. Sometimes, mods will even [bait people](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/podcasts-media-and-messaging-or-how-the-democrats-can-win-again/1015769/81) into disciplinary action by asking them questions about trans issues that can’t possibly be answered without breaking the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/14 "2025-03-19T18:51:26Z")
> [@songsoflovetrouble](#): > > Sometimes, mods will even [bait people](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/podcasts-media-and-messaging-or-how-the-democrats-can-win-again/1015769/81) into disciplinary action by asking them questions about trans issues that can’t possibly be answered without breaking the rules. “I don’t think gender care is medically necessary,” would absolutely be allowed on the board. I’m not sure what part of the quoted rules you think would ban that. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/15 "2025-03-19T18:57:35Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > But to your point, if I was really wanting to know more I am certain their are threads here that would help me fucking know more. 🙂 🙂 There’s a big difference between wanting to learn and needing to know where “the line” is. Someone legitimately asking questions isn’t going to come close to breaking a rule. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/16 "2025-03-19T19:07:37Z")
IIRC, I think arguing that trans people wanting to perform in womans girls sports and if that is fair- is still a legit topic. Myself- I dont care- have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/17 "2025-03-19T19:08:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@songsoflovetrouble](#): > > > > Sometimes, mods will even [bait people](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/podcasts-media-and-messaging-or-how-the-democrats-can-win-again/1015769/81) into disciplinary action by asking them questions about trans issues that can’t possibly be answered without breaking the rules. > > “I don’t think gender care is medically necessary,” would absolutely be allowed on the board. I’m not sure what part of the quoted rules you think would ban that. I don’t have time to respond in full in that thread at this time, but Miller is clearly engaging in good faith and I don’t think he’s trying to bait anyone into breaking the rules. Posters baiting others into breaking that particular rule _does_ happen, and I recently reported such a post, but I haven’t ever seen a mod do it. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/18 "2025-03-19T19:28:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > IIRC, I think arguing that trans people wanting to perform in womans girls sports and if that is fair- is still a legit topic. Myself- I dont care- have fun. Especially since there has been considerable debate about that in the trans community in my understanding. I’m not athletic and didn’t really play sports so I am not qualified to have an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/19 "2025-03-19T19:29:19Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I’m not athletic and didn’t really play sports so I am not qualified to have an opinion. Same here, altho I did play college FB. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/20 "2025-03-20T00:49:39Z")
Seriously, I _really_ boils down to the ur-rule of not being a jerk. We have posters here who are trans. All of the explicit rules are about not saying such individuals are mentally ill (direct insult) or misgendering (another direct insult or assault on self). Not doing so to off board posters is similar, though not the same, in that you’re attacking their identity second hand. Even in the Pit there’s rules against wishing harm to another poster, and denying a trans poster’s identity would go pretty far down that road as well. Don’t be a jerk - it’s not that hard. Many people looking for bright lines (in society, not just the board) are rules lawyers trying to maximize their ability to scream “I’m not touching you” in a socially acceptable manner. Others, including several in this thread, are trying to figure out how to deal with _changing attitudes_ where their old rules may no longer apply. The first class are being jerks, the second are asking for help. And it’s generally pretty clear which are which. Sadly, there are at least some in the second category that are tarred with the brush of the first. But if they continue to operate _in good faith_ then it generally becomes quite clear after a short while, both IRL and the board. So TL;DR - Don’t be a jerk. Don’t try to find a way to _BE_ a jerk and get away with it. And if you can’t be _honest_ without being a jerk, avoid such conversations. Even in these quiet days of the board there’s tons of other discussions to be had, not to mention the rest of the internet! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807.md?page=2)