# What is the Mona Lisa of photographs?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 15, 2001, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620 "2001-11-15T22:24:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2001, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/41 "2001-11-16T22:09:01Z")
How, 'bout [this](http://www.attrition.org/gallery/other/oswald_1.jpg)?
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### Author:  [@minlokwat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minlokwat)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2001, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/42 "2001-11-16T22:26:52Z")
You people, I swear. I think I could actually hear the whooshing sound of the point zipping over your heads.
We are not talking about the all-time GREATEST photograph ever shot- but the one that is most, universally recognized.
A number of the pictures from above that I’ve clicked on - I’ve never seen before in my freakin’ life. And these are the ones you think are the most famous???
Let’s get back to the OP–my OP–with a similar analogy.
There is no doubt that…oh, let’s say **El Greco’s** _Burial of the Count Ortiz_ is a far superior painting as compared with the Mona Lisa. In examining the visual aspects, the overall technique, the artist’s use of BLAH, Blah, blah…
The point is, “Is that painting (or any other painting) as widely recognized as Leonardo’s?” I think not.
For that reason, I submit that either the picture of the sailor kissing the lady or the one of the Afghan chick still ranks number one.
Also, some of the pictures, particularly the one of the naked Vietnamese girl and–from the same era–the one of the American soldier about to literally blow the brains out of the poor, hapless soul on the wrong end of the gun barrel, are simply, far too horrifying to be immortalized in this way.
Alright, that’s it. Now pay attention next time.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2001, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/43 "2001-11-16T23:30:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Sofa King \*
> \*\*How, 'bout [this](http://www.attrition.org/gallery/other/oswald_1.jpg)? \*\*
THATS IT! god i love this photo! have it on a T-shirt and a poster!
or: [http://www.salpiconpress.com/salpicon/graffiti/nguyengoc.html](http://www.salpiconpress.com/salpicon/graffiti/nguyengoc.html)
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### Author:  [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2001, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/44 "2001-11-16T23:56:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by minlokwat \*
> **…the one of the American soldier about to literally blow the brains out of the poor, hapless soul on the wrong end of the gun barrel, are simply, far too horrifying to be immortalized in this way.**
\
Not American. That’s a South Vietnamese soldier doing the shooting
\
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### Author:  [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/45 "2001-11-17T01:26:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Kamandi \*
> \*\ ***Earthling** ’s mention of the Apollo 11 moon landing photo brought another one to my mind: the [Earthrise](http://www.spacepix.net/apollo/earthrise_apollo_11.htm) over the moon photo taken from Apollo 11. \*\*
I got you one better: how about the [first earthrise](http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/GPN-2001-000009.jpg), taken on 29 December 1968 by the [Apollo 8](http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2001-000009.html) crew.
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### Author:  [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/46 "2001-11-17T01:43:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Montfort \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > \*Originally posted by Kamandi \*
> > \*\ ***Earthling** ’s mention of the Apollo 11 moon landing photo brought another one to my mind: the [Earthrise](http://www.spacepix.net/apollo/earthrise_apollo_11.htm) over the moon photo taken from Apollo 11. \*\*
>
> I got you one better: how about the [first earthrise](http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/GPN-2001-000009.jpg), taken on 29 December 1968 by the [Apollo 8](http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/ABSTRACTS/GPN-2001-000009.html) crew. \*\*
I think you folks are missing the point of this thread. I think the OP was looking for real non-posed pictures, you know: the kind not taken in studios.
(runs for cover laughing maniacally)
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/47 "2001-11-17T01:50:23Z")
The street execution of the Viet Cong soldier is my pick for most (in)famous Vietnam war picture. More widely published than the napalmed girl photo.
I object to the Ansel Adams moonrise picture being considered. It is a composition of photos and not an actual single picture. Since its Adams its considered “art” and not “fakery”.
There is also a noticable problem with the “Earthrise” picture as far as title is concerned.
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### Author:  [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/48 "2001-11-17T01:51:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by HubZilla \*
> \*\*I think you folks are missing the point of this thread. I think the OP was looking for real non-posed pictures, you know: the kind not taken in studios. \*\*
I’m sorry? The photo I linked to was not posed. It was a spur of the moment, “hey, look at THAT” photo taken by the crew of the first ship to orbit the moon.
Oh, duh, I get it. The Apollo mission was faked in a studio in Arizona. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/49 "2001-11-17T02:15:45Z")
I think that Earthling has listed an essential canon (hey, intentional pun) of a half dozen great photos. Of course the Afghan woman is the Mona Lisa equivilent because we know nothing about her and she has those outrageous green eyes.
Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico is just awesome too. Unbelieveable luck meets unmatched genius to make the moment Adams lived his whole life to capture.
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/50 "2001-11-17T02:24:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by DPWhite \*
> \*\*… Unbelieveable luck meets unmatched genius to make the moment Adams lived his whole life to capture. \*\*
Explain please. Luck? Was he lucky in knowing how to superimpose a seperate shot of the moon onto another photo? FtG is perplexed.
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### Author:  [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/51 "2001-11-17T02:55:25Z")
ftg you out to be perplexed if someone told you Moonrise was faked, they were lying. Adams saw the shot while driving, the sun at his back, the moon in the foreground. The sun was glinting off the crosses in the cemetery. He set up his bulky view camera really fast, took a quick shot best estimating the light with the intent to take his time with the second shot. The sunlight boucing off the crosses wasn’t there for the second shot.
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### Author:  [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/52 "2001-11-17T04:59:14Z")
I must admit, I’ve never seen half these pictures either.
My own suggestion is the still from “The Seven Year Itch” where MM’s dress is billowing. She herself is incredibly iconic, and _the_ iconic picture of her is, without a doubt, that movie still. Is there anyone in this thread who hasn’t seen that picture?
-Ben
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### Author:  [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/53 "2001-11-17T17:29:07Z")
This is an interesting question, and the responses are equally interesting. We seem to have two types of responses, the artistic afgan girl/Adams’ moonrise, and the Pulitzer Prize approach, Apollo 8 moonrise/iwo jima, etc.
I will add a few of my own suggestions:
“Tomoko Uemura in Her Bath” from the Minimata series by W. Eugene Smith
[http://masters-of-photography.com/S/smith/smith\_minamata\_full.html](http://masters-of-photography.com/S/smith/smith_minamata_full.html)
“Galloping Horse” by Eadward Muybridge
[http://masters-of-photography.com/M/muybridge/muybridge\_galloping\_horse.html](http://masters-of-photography.com/M/muybridge/muybridge_galloping_horse.html)
That’s all I could cull from one site, I’ll poke around and see if I can come up with anything better.
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### Author:  [@Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/54 "2001-11-17T17:44:09Z")
Let me add that when Scientific American wanted to do a cover story on digital manipulation of photographs, they used a cover picture of Marilyn Monroe (in billowing dress) holding hands with Abraham Lincoln.
More broadly, one defining characteristic of monalisadom is the fact that the image, being so familiar, is reworked by artists. (Like Duchamp’s LHOOQ picture, for example.) The Marilyn picture has been reworked, not only by Scientific American, but also by (IIRC) Warhol, and, like the Mona Lisa, the Marilyn picture has been put on countless T-shirts in altered form (with the lines of the picture picked out with bright neon-sign like lines, for example.) There’s also a Marilyin-in-billowing-dress clock, Betty Boop in Marilyn dress, etc.
The question is, a hundred years from now, what photograph will be turned into countless consumer goods? If the Mona Lisa is the most reproduced painting in the world, what will be the most reproduced photo? You’re not going to see a “flag over the Reichstag” tie, but I bet in 2100 someone will ask a future Cecil “Who is that woman in that billowing dress picture?” And then Cecil-2100 will explain who MM was, and how the dress was stolen and then recovered, etc.
-Ben
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### Author:  [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/55 "2001-11-17T18:11:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ftg \*
> **I object to the Ansel Adams moonrise picture being considered. It is a composition of photos and not an actual single picture. Since its Adams its considered “art” and not “fakery”.**
Got a cite for that? In [Examples: The Making of 40 Photographs](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/082121750X/qid=1006020139/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_14_1/002-1861037-7617662), Adams discusses that photo specifically. He was driving home after a day of taking pictures when he spotted that scene. He stopped his car, set up his equipment, and couldn’t find his exposure meter. Calling upon decades of experience he _estimated_ the exposure and shot _one_ plate before the light faded from the crosses. It is most definitely NOT a composite. It is simply a well-exposed, well-printed single photograph by a master of his craft. It’s the result of a little luck and LOTS of experience.
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### Author:  [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/56 "2001-11-17T18:13:34Z")
Oops! Scooped by **DPWhite**. Should have read page 2 before I posted.
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### Author:  [@Miss\_Gretchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Gretchen)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/57 "2001-11-17T18:28:58Z")
[Joey Tribiani voice]
What about that famous artist baby?
[/Joey Tribiani voice]
However, I think that either the Afghan woman or Marilyn Monroe’s billowing dress on the subway grate would fit the OP’s description.
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### Author:  [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2001, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/58 "2001-11-17T18:32:34Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by grimpixie \*
> \*\*And (as if a further reason was needed) the [most expensive photograph](http://www.arklo.com/st1sem8.htm#anseladams) ever sold by a living photographer… \*\*
I heard that this photo broke the record price for a single original silver print:
[http://masters-of-photography.com/W/weston/weston\_shells\_full.html](http://masters-of-photography.com/W/weston/weston_shells_full.html)
I’ve seen this photo and it is absolutely luscious. The web image does not do it justice.
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### Author:  [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2001, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/59 "2001-11-18T07:15:29Z")
I am surprised no one has mentioned ManRay.
I am presumming the OP wants a photot that is “art” and not journalism…then this is my vote.
[ ](https://www.cobleskill.edu/humanities/GDT/Photo_buttons/ray_photo.jpg)
[http://www2.gateway.ne.jp/~makotsu/pictures/photographer/man-ray/manray01.jpg](http://www2.gateway.ne.jp/~makotsu/pictures/photographer/man-ray/manray01.jpg)
maybe it’s because I am an arts person, but I have seen all these photos. That said, I am really shocked that in a visual culture such as ours, so many here don’t recognize more of these images.
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### Author:  [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2001, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-mona-lisa-of-photographs/93620/60 "2001-11-18T17:52:27Z")
For those who were trying to see the rising of the Soviet flag over the Reichstag earlier in the thread, I just wanted to say Geocities does not allow you to link directly to an image, you have to get the HTML document that links to it. Here it is: [http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/5810/vk.html](http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/5810/vk.html) Scroll down a bit and you can click on the thumbnail
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