# What is the most complicated piece of music written, for multiple instruments, which could be played by the composer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [July 31, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707 "2021-07-31T14:24:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/1 "2021-07-31T14:24:22Z")
… not at the same time, obviously. Backdrop: I was listening to one of Mozart’s piano concertos… I think 23, in A-minor… when I wondered _Can Wolfie play this piece for all instruments it is written for?_ We already know he can play the piano part: after all he debuted the majority of his piano concertos with himself sitting at the instrument. I’m pretty sure, being the son of one of Europe’s premier violin teachers, he can handle first and second violin, and more than likely, the viola and bass instruments as well. Probably. But can he handle the woodwinds? I know he didn’t like the flute as a child and I have absolutely zero indication that he could ever play the instrument, so I’m going to say… no. He couldn’t play the flute, therefore, as a key instrument in the 23rd Piano Concerto, he could **not** play every instrument in this one. Or, frankly, any other work of his which has the flute. Going down this chain of thought naturally led me to wonder… What is the most complicated piece of music written where the composer him/herself can handle all the instruments? This is likely an unanswerable question, but at least for the definition of “complicated”, I can bring ease and comfort to the respondents by saying “Define it as you will”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/2 "2021-07-31T15:08:14Z")
The Time’s album [The Time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_(The_Time_album)). > Although the individual members of The Time are credited with instrumentation, in reality the music was almost entirely performed by Prince. The only instrumental performance not by Prince was by [Doctor Fink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Fink), who played synth on “Cool”. Morris Day sang lead vocals, replacing Prince’s guide vocals. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/3 "2021-07-31T15:22:09Z")
I can’t find this online right now, but there’s a story that Frank Zappa went to rehearse and record with a (small) orchestra and after they had looked at the sheet music, dense pages of black marks on staffs, the players all said “what the hell??? This is crazy! I can’t play that; NO ONE can play that!” So Frank says “if i can play it for you on my guitar, will you at least try?” Dubious, the musicians agreed. So Frank played every part, one by one, as written, _on his guitar_. Clarinet, violin, trumpet, etc. The musicians, suitably shamed and impressed, began rehearsing. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/4 "2021-07-31T15:25:47Z")
Interesting story, SB! I probably don’t need to clarify, but just in case: If your “flute” and “violin” are actually played via synth, you don’t get credit for playing the flute nor the violin. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/5 "2021-07-31T15:28:49Z")
Not exactly what the OP is looking for, but J.S. Bach was known to be not only able to play, but to _improvise_, six-voice fugues on the organ. Which is a pretty astounding feat. That said, the organ was the synthesizer of its day, and, as JohnT points out, you don’t get credit for playing multiple instruments if you’re actually playing one instrument that can imitate multiple instruments. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/6 "2021-07-31T15:35:40Z")
I’m not educated in this, not at all, but I do keep coming back to Bach - I do think he could have handled all the instrumentation in much of his works, for example his Concerto for Four Harpsichords… oddly enough, like the Mozart mentioned above, also in A-minor. A transcription of a Vivaldi 4-violin concerto in B-minor, with Vivaldi’s violin’s rewritten for harpsichord (Did Bach even know how fucking smart he was?), many historians claim he possibly wrote this [as a piece he could play along with his wife and children](https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-1065/). And I’m pretty sure Bach could handle any line of music he wrote for a child, regardless of instrument. Even if it is a Vivaldi transcription. Just sayin’, without any proof. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/BlJB18lVW2I/maxresdefault.jpg "Johann Sebastian Bach - Concerto for Four Harpsichords, BWV 1065 (1733)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlJB18lVW2I) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/7 "2021-07-31T15:37:03Z")
🤦‍♂️ Sorry. It’s early and I was still in bed when I posted that. It was dark out and the sun was in my eyes. Mea culpa. Carry on. Can I interest you in some Todd Rundgren? > **[Something/Anything?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something/Anything%3F)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Something/Anything? is the third album by American musician Todd Rundgren, released in February 1972. It was his first double album, and was recorded in late 1971 in Los Angeles, New York City and Bearsville Studios, Woodstock. Three quarters of the album was recorded in the studio with Rundgren playing all instruments and singing all vocals, as well as being the producer. The final quarter contained a number of tracks recorded live in the studi... ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/8 "2021-07-31T15:53:30Z")
Paul McCartney, John Fogerty, and Emitt Rhode all did entire albums where they played all the instruments themselves. Don’t know how you can define complexity, though. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/9 "2021-07-31T15:53:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I can’t find this online right now, but there’s a story that Frank Zappa went to rehearse and record with a (small) orchestra and after they had looked at the sheet music, dense pages of black marks on staffs, the players all said “what the hell??? This is crazy! I can’t play that; NO ONE can play that!” > > So Frank says “if i can play it for you on my guitar, will you at least try?” > > Dubious, the musicians agreed. So Frank played every part, one by one, as written, _on his guitar_ . Clarinet, violin, trumpet, etc. Second-Hand confirmation of the tale from me to you. In the mid 1970’s I happened to meet Tony Ortega, one of the guys who played on Waka Jawaka. He told me that when necessary, Frank would play anybody’s part on guitar to demonstrate how he wanted it to sound. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/10 "2021-07-31T16:04:47Z")
Speaking of Zappa, he wrote [The Black Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Page). It is know to be very difficult to play. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/11 "2021-07-31T16:13:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > A transcription of a Vivaldi 4-violin concerto in B-minor, with Vivaldi’s violin’s rewritten for harpsichord (Did Bach even know how fucking smart he was?), many historians claim he possibly wrote this [as a piece he could play along with his wife and children](https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-1065/). The Bach family was quite possibly the most overall talented family in history; certainly in the top 3. ---
**Author:** ![Kzbre5m](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f08c70/32.png) [@Kzbre5m](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kzbre5m)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/12 "2021-07-31T17:25:55Z")
Probably not quite what OP wants, but in the BBC movie about Stravinsky’s _The Rite of Spring (Le Sacre du printemps)_, [Stravinsky played the entire piece on piano](https://youtu.be/JcZ7lfdhVQw?t=333), to convince the producer to show it. He later supervised the orchestra playing it, demonstrating the sections on a piano, and another time racing the dance troupe to finish a section. Granted this was an actor playing a piano, but I’m sure Stravinsky had the whole thing in his head, and _Rite of Spring_ is complicated. > [@Bootb](#): > > The Bach family was quite possibly the most overall talented family in history; certainly in the top 3. Except, perhaps, P.D.Q. Bach. In later years he couldn’t sit at the piano properly and had to play sidesaddle. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/13 "2021-07-31T20:14:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Paul McCartney, John Fogerty, and Emitt Rhode all did entire albums where they played all the instruments themselves. Don’t know how you can define complexity, though. Pete Townshend never officially released an album which he recorded all by himself, but he used to pre-record every classical Who album on his own in his home studio, playing all the instruments and singing all lead and harmony voices. These were meant and actually used as leads for the band to record the final album. It’s especially impressionable for “Quadrophenia”, on the super duper deluxe edition, Townshend’s solo demos are completely included. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/14 "2021-07-31T20:38:16Z")
> [@Kzbre5m](#): > > Except, perhaps, P.D.Q. Bach. In later years he couldn’t sit at the piano properly and had to play sidesaddle. Yes, but remember that he also developed the technique for playing rolling arpeggios on the foot pedals of an organ. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/15 "2021-07-31T21:48:08Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > The Bach family was quite possibly the most overall talented family in history; certainly in the top 3. Right up there with the Wiggin family. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/16 "2021-07-31T22:24:46Z")
> [@Kzbre5m](#): > > Probably not quite what OP wants, but in the BBC movie about Stravinsky’s _The Rite of Spring (Le Sacre du printemps)_, [Stravinsky played the entire piece on piano](https://youtu.be/JcZ7lfdhVQw?t=333), to convince the producer to show it. George Gershwin did the same for _Rhapsody in Blue_. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/vjgDhfpNSdc/maxresdefault.jpg "George Gershwin plays Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" (High quality)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjgDhfpNSdc) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/17 "2021-08-01T03:30:43Z")
Getting back to the OP: Mozart was a prodigy on both the piano and violin (he used to play string quartets with Haydn and two other contemporary luminaries), and it’s said that the viola was his favorite instrument, though he never wrote for it as a solo. But I can’t find any evidence that he could play cello. If he had, why didn’t he ever write for it, except as an ensemble instrument? But I bet that, given his curiosity, there were times when he picked up a cello and tried to play with it. And with a little coaching by his musician friends, I suppose he could play a little on it. So we have piano, violin, viola and cello (coincidentally the exact instruments that I play). So he could play piano quartets, the most complicated being the one in E-flat, K 493. He also was quite adept on the organ, usually not an ensemble instrument. And of course the harpsichord and clavichord. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/18 "2021-08-01T03:56:14Z")
Putting K. 493 on Spotify now… And to the point about the cello, it doesn’t matter if he struggles through it via training, etc, as long as he could make a reasonable go at it. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/19 "2021-08-01T04:27:06Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Paul McCartney, John Fogerty, and Emitt Rhode all did entire albums where they played all the instruments themselves. Don’t know how you can define complexity, though. Jeff Lynne, of ELO, did the same (or very nearly so) on the last three ELO albums: _Mr. Blue Sky_ (in which he re-recorded old ELO songs by himself), _Alone in the Universe_, and _From Out of Nowhere_. He’s playing guitar, bass guitar, piano, keyboards, drums, vocoder, vibraphone, and cello, though the latter three instruments are only on certain tracks on those albums. But, as with @RealityChuck’s examples, they may not necessarily be particularly complex songs. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707/20 "2021-08-01T05:45:48Z")
People tend to focus on Bach’s instrumental music for some reason, but he wrote a huge quantity of choral music as well. His fulltime job was as a choir master. Many of Bach’s choral pieces are written with 8 voice parts, as well as organ and other instruments. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-complicated-piece-of-music-written-for-multiple-instruments-which-could-be-played-by-the-composer/947707.md?page=2)