# What is the most defendable American city? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887 "2011-02-28T06:38:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/41 "2011-02-28T21:02:46Z")
Not exactly a major city, but I’d think that Juneau, AK is pretty defensible, especially if you can mine the entrances to the Gastineau Channel and be ready to blow the bridge to Douglas Island. You might have a little trouble holding onto the hospital and the airport, though, since they’re further up the coast from the downtown area. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/42 "2011-02-28T21:32:59Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Are we talking about the best natural defenses, really? Because there you have to knock out most high-population cities and concentrate on small/medium populations. I’m trying to come up with any US city which could survive 2-3 weeks without outside water piping in, and I just can’t find a single one. If it’s only the water supply you are wondering about, I think Minneapolis could last indefinately. MSP and some of the suburbs exchange some of their water, trying to balance out things like water softness, but water and winter are 2 things that we have. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/43 "2011-02-28T22:12:21Z")
Wichita Falls, TX: Has the benefit that no army would ever go there willingly (the Air Force has a base there, but I’m pretty sure they were drunk when they signed the lease, a common state of mind for Air Force personnel in Wichita Falls) Altus, Oklahoma: Security through Obscurity!😃 And Galveston is also a bad place to camp out because it’s like a speed bump for gulf storms. I’m honestly surprised the city still exists after the Galveston Hurricane which almost literally swept the city off the island it sat on. (IIRC, the storm featured ten foot storm swells at a time when Galveston’s highest point was four feet above sea level.) ---
**Author:** ![xoferew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e9a140/32.png) [@xoferew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xoferew)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/44 "2011-02-28T22:32:55Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Despite the fact that it has/had forts all over the place, Manhattan has never been successfully defended against an attack from the sea. The British took it from the Dutch by a display of naval force against which their one fort did no good. The British took it away from the American Revolutionaries by an overwhelming naval force. What if Battery Park got a modern weapons upgrade? And surely there are enough people in Manhattan to work shifts watching every inch of the shoreline? Meanwhile Fresh Direct can keep airlifting food into Central Park. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/45 "2011-02-28T22:33:57Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > There’s no way you and you can keep them out of a city. People had a hard time keeping invaders out of fortified cities throughout history, and most modern cities aren’t surrounded by walls. They can have 750 guys start a firefight in one area that you will be forced to throw your weight into then have 250 guys walk around the whole city under the cover of night and swim in from the one place you thought impossible. You just can’t cover 360 degrees around a city 24/7. Leningrad withstood siege by the Germans for 872 days during WWII, so saying a modern city can’t withstand a siege seems wrong on the face of it. The lack of masonry walls isn’t a issue, since they are almost useless again modern artillery and almost any city could build earthworks on a few weeks notice. The big question is resupply. The situation in Leningrad was desperate until the Soviets were able to open a supply line in November 1941. Many cities are on rivers or other supplies of fresh water, but food and ammo aren’t optional. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/46 "2011-02-28T22:49:13Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > If it’s only the water supply you are wondering about, I think Minneapolis could last indefinately. MSP and some of the suburbs exchange some of their water, trying to balance out things like water softness, but water and winter are 2 things that we have. Also keep in mind that you only need a couple of liters a day for drinking water during a siege. My father mentioned being issued a few gallons of fresh water a day in the Navy during the thirties and he had to bath every day and do his laundry with it. He still washed his underwear with his bathwater 40 years after he got out of the navy. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/47 "2011-02-28T22:49:48Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > Fayetteville I’ll second that (NC, that is, home of Fort Bragg. Maybe a tie with Jacksonville, NC, home of USMC Camp Lejeune. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/48 "2011-02-28T22:51:47Z")
> [@dhkendall](#): > > But hasn’t all of the US, by definition, fell to _someone_ at some point in time (the English, the Spanish, the French, or the US itself)? Well, it’s not like they were all taken individually by battle. No armed forces that I’ve ever heard of have ever attacked San Francisco (my hometown), for example, so it’s difficult to know exactly how defensible it would be. There are quite a bit of old defensive battlements around the bay, but they’re all decommissioned at this point and a lot of them are not actually in the city itself. Presumably if someone were to attack the city, those old armaments could be used to launch attacks on the city, particularly from the Marin Headlands, as the Golden Gate is not a very wide straight. Nevertheless, it would probably be a good choice for an easily defensible city. There is also freshwater lake, Lake Merced, within the boundaries of the city. I’ve been to Sarajevo, which suffered the longest siege since World War II, and it’s in the middle of a valley. San Francisco would be VASTLY easier to defend because of its geography, and Sarajevo managed to hold out for years. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/49 "2011-03-01T00:09:18Z")
While the OP _may_ have a definitive answer, what is mostly being given are opinions–well-reasoned, but opinions. Moved. **samclem** Moderator, GQ ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/50 "2011-03-01T00:49:17Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Leningrad withstood siege by the Germans for 872 days during WWII, so saying a modern city can’t withstand a siege seems wrong on the face of it. But the OP later specified 500 good guys vs 1000 bad guys. You just can’t cover a whole city with only the 500 people. If the city is a 10 mile diameter circle, you could only post one person every 330 feet. That’s not nearly enough and that’s with every person on the line, no reaction force or reserve or HQ. If they didn’t just try to sneak through, they could leisurely send 20 guys to probe the lines in a different area every 15 minutes and you’d run your people ragged just responding to that within a few days. Most cities aren’t self contained dots, they have suburbs that extend for miles, so once the action starts, they are essentially already inside the city anyway. Until we find one that is a self contained dot, I’d prefer running them ragged inside a city than running myself ragged trying to keep people out. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/51 "2011-03-01T04:39:45Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Yeah, and they have a great track record, too[.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor) Pearl Harbor was only a 1 day attack, there’s no way they could have sustained a siege. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/52 "2011-03-01T05:23:06Z")
Petersburg, Va. was held against the longest siege in the Civil War, wasn’t it? Might be worth a try again… ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/53 "2011-03-01T05:51:11Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > But the OP later specified 500 good guys vs 1000 bad guys. You just can’t cover a whole city with only the 500 people. If the city is a 10 mile diameter circle, you could only post one person every 330 feet. That’s not nearly enough and that’s with every person on the line, no reaction force or reserve or HQ. If they didn’t just try to sneak through, they could leisurely send 20 guys to probe the lines in a different area every 15 minutes and you’d run your people ragged just responding to that within a few days. If you specify only 500 defenders, then the obvious answer is Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado. Of course, in that case you only need enough people to close the doors. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/54 "2011-03-01T06:43:36Z")
Colma, California. About a million residents are immune to being killed, and only 1,000 who can be suffered as casualties. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/55 "2011-03-01T08:43:55Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you specify only 500 defenders, then the obvious answer is Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado. Of course, in that case you only need enough people to close the doors. I dunno, doesn’t holing up in a military bunker kinda go against the spirit of the OP? If not, then I call dibs on the USS _Cowpens_. Sure it’d be a little cramped, but if the enemy can’t use modern weapons or sea/air vehicles, I can just sail a few miles out and drop anchor. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/56 "2011-03-01T09:02:36Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > But the OP later specified 500 good guys vs 1000 bad guys. You just can’t cover a whole city with only the 500 people. > … > Until we find one that is a self contained dot, I’d prefer running them ragged inside a city than running myself ragged trying to keep people out. There are thousands of self-contained small American towns. Some of these also sit atop their own well-tapped aquifer. No water flows into my town. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/57 "2011-03-01T12:53:55Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Even the classically trained and indefatigueable Mike Rowe can’t quite make it…[notice how he goes sharp on the lowest notes.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTRJ2MeSG2Q&feature=autoplay&list=QL&index=1&playnext=2) As an aside, I must say I actually liked Rowe’s attempt. I’ll take his slightly-pitchy yet strong, direct, and patriotic version any day. It even moved me a little. As for the OP, clearly the answer is whatever city Chuck Norris currently resides in. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/58 "2011-03-01T13:43:03Z")
Los Alamos NM might be a good candidate. It has just a couple of roads leading in; otherwise, you must climb steepish cliffs to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/59 "2011-03-01T14:23:18Z")
Scranton, PA. Its surrounded by mountains, has a fresh water source, and it has a self sustaining energy source (coal) that could be readily adapted to its electric grid. Its not hugely populated, but the mountain fighting losses to try to take it would be staggering. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887/60 "2011-03-01T14:52:50Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Purely defensive? One of the islands of Hawaii. Attacking somebody would be a real bitch though. The attacking force would have nearly zero chance to resupply too. Didn’t seem to be a problem in 1941. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-defendable-american-city/572887.md?page=4)