# What is the most difficult modern English book to understand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 19, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745 "2012-07-19T17:12:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![timid1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@timid1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/timid1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/41 "2012-07-20T14:57:48Z")
I’m here for Gravity’s Rainbow. Embarrassed to admit that I’ve started it 5 times and have not finished it. It’s a WTF am I doing reading this thing. I have read and even enjoyed the rest of Pychon’s work,especially V. However the albatross that Gravity’s Rainbow is to me still haunts. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/42 "2012-07-20T15:14:41Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > You know, I love, love, love _Paradise Lost_, but I’ll be the first to say it’s not easy going. I personally didn’t think _Paradise Lost_ was all that bad. At least it reads as in English and you can get a feel for what’s going on. There’s nothing particularly tricky language-wise happening there. _Finnegens Wake_, though. There’s just nothing that I’ve encountered in the same league in terms of impenetrability. ---
**Author:** ![Animastryfe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Animastryfe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Animastryfe)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/43 "2012-07-20T15:40:09Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Well, try this. We’ll say the reader is a college educated (BS or BA) person from an English speaking country. Their degree is in something other than the immediate subject matter of the book or something closely related (e.g. if the book is an advanced treatise on tactics of the War of 1812, then their degree might be in Computer Science, or if the book is on quantum physics then they may have a degree in Journalism) They speak and read only a standard English dialect (e.g. US or British), and don’t have any specialized training in rural or nonstandard dialects that the average person doesn’t have. They have had some exposure to Shakespeare and the King James Bible but are not experts. I don’t like this. For example, multivariable calculus is not particularly difficult, but it would be incomprehensible to someone with no knowledge of single variable calculus. Similarly, a textbook for the first two semesters of quantum mechanics is probably not the most difficult textbook a physics major will encounter, but it will be meaningless to someone who has never taken a university physics course. More generally speaking, this criteria ignores prior knowledge, which may be very easy to learn, that could significantly decrease the difficulty level of the book. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/44 "2012-07-20T15:41:04Z")
I think it was [io9.com](http://io9.com) that, a month or so ago, had a list of sci-fi books that people claim to have read but really haven’t, complete with quotes from various authors explaining why we should really go and actually read each book. Gravity’s Rainbow was on the list, but they weren’t able to find anyone who genuinely HAD read it to explain to the rest of us why it’s worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/45 "2012-07-20T16:08:31Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Holy shit. I remember having to read _The Scarlett Letter_ in the 11th grade and wanting to tear the fucking book to shreds the entire time. It’s been a few years since then so maybe now I could get a better handle on it, but gawddamn that book made no fucking sense to me at the time. Are you sure? It’s not that complicated or difficult to understand. It’s pretty straight forward, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/46 "2012-07-20T16:12:27Z")
I read a page of Fifty Shades of Gray and I’m absolutely certain I’ll never read second. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/47 "2012-07-20T16:37:26Z")
I found House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski difficult. The confused side notes, digressions and asides are part of the theme and I’m pretty sure you aren’t even supposed to make sense of it. Still isn’t Finnegan’s Wake though. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/48 "2012-07-20T16:49:02Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > This. > > I’ve been halfway through it for two years. Don’t give up on it - the reveal is brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/49 "2012-07-20T16:59:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I read a page of Fifty Shades of Gray and I’m absolutely certain I’ll never read second. You need to skip forward to about page 78 for the porn. It’s still terrible though. Really, really bad. It makes Anais Nin seem good, and that’s a very low bar. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/50 "2012-07-20T18:20:50Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Both of which were originally written in German. Since the OP mentioned the King James Bible, I assume that doesn’t disqualify them, but it does leave open the question of whether it’s the original work or the translation that’s being judged difficult to understand. Fair enough, but I think Hegel is supposed to be pretty tough going in the original German too. Personally I had no problems with Hesse’s _The Glass Bead Game_ (in translation). It may be a bit dull compared to his other books, but I don’t recall it as being difficult to follow. ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ I haven’t read _Gravity’s Rainbow_, but I found Pynchon’s _V_ pretty hard going. (By contrast, _The Crying of Lot 49_ was quite fun.) ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Who can fail to be moved by [this passage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Principia_Mathematica_theorem_54-43.png) from page 362 of volume 1? Well, that twist only really works after they have been building the tension for the previous 361 pages. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/47e85d/32.png) [@jayrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayrey)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/51 "2012-07-20T18:25:01Z")
I’m embarrassed to admit that, for me, “War and Peace” was almost indecipherable. Of course, when I was reading it, I’d been in chemotherapy for three months and really had no brain left to keep track of all those multisyllabic names. Maybe the characters had been “Smith” or “Clark” I would have had an easier time of it. As for Faulkner, I won’t go near him. I felt stupid enough struggling with W&P. I’m glad to see someone else mention “Fifty Shades of Gray.” I know it doesn’t really qualify as the hardest book to read, but certainly ranks near the top of the Worthless Books to Read list. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/52 "2012-07-20T18:33:02Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > [Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance](http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenance-Inquiry/dp/0060589469) > by Robt. Pirsig What!! :eek: I first read \*Zen and the Art . . . \*in a single night, unable to put it down. And I read it again (something I very rarely do with any novel). It was a major best seller, too. I don’t think I was the only person who really liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/53 "2012-07-20T18:40:08Z")
I’ll admit to not having attempted many difficult books. I read Joyce’s Ulysses when I was in my 20s. It was a struggle and there wasn’t much reward, but I finished it and convinced myself at the time that I understood it fairly well. Finnegan’s Wake is incomprehensible to me, the most incomprehensible book I have attempted to read. There are parts of it that are a pleasure to read, I mean sentences or at most paragraphs, pleasurable just for the wordplay and the rhythm. The quote that poster **FinnAgain** uses for a sig is an example of this. It’s fun in a Gertrude Stein kind of way. I just have been unable to absorb any meaning out of any consecutive paragraphs or pages. Infinite Jest, while difficult, I found understandable and rewarding enough to have reread. I’m convinced that I have become a somewhat lazy reader in my late 50s. I still read a lot, but challenging fiction is too much work. I guess this means that my plans to read some important old classics in my old age will probably not work out. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/54 "2012-07-20T18:58:01Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I found House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski difficult. The confused side notes, digressions and asides are part of the theme and I’m pretty sure you aren’t even supposed to make sense of it. > > Still isn’t Finnegan’s Wake though. Oh yeah. I have a copy, barely cracked it because it’s so intimidating. And I am an obsessive person who needs to read and understand every word. Oh, and to nitpick (multiple posts): The book is _Finnegans Wake_ The song is [_Finnegan’s Wake_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnegan%27s_Wake) It’s easy to remember. The title that rapes the rules of grammar is the work that rapes the English language. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/55 "2012-07-20T19:05:47Z")
I know it’s not a book, but I’m still surprised nobody has mentioned the [Time Cube](http://www.timecube.com/) yet. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Mama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@Atomic\_Mama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Mama)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/56 "2012-07-20T19:31:04Z")
> [@aesop](#): > > I have tried to get through Faulkner’s _As I Lay Dying_ at least twice. You know how if at first you don’t succeed you’re supposed to try, try again? Whoever said that never read Faulkner. Or you never been to Mississippi. 🆒:eek: ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/57 "2012-07-20T20:29:53Z")
Does anybody remember the old 50’s movie “The Young Lions”? In the flick, Montgomery Cliff plays a Jewish corporal who is being hassled by his company sergeant. The sergeant spies a copy of “Ulysses” in Cliff’s footlocker, and yells at him “that’s a dirty book-get rid of it”. It always made me wonder how an army DI/sergeant would have known anything about such a weird book as “Ulysses”-much less browbeat a private for having a copy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/58 "2012-07-20T20:49:31Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It always made me wonder how an army DI/sergeant would have known anything about such a weird book as “Ulysses”-much less browbeat a private for having a copy. No, that’s actually pretty accurate. _Ulysses_ was at the center of a major censorship [controversy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._One_Book_Called_Ulysses) so many people who had never read it knew it was a “dirty” book. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/59 "2012-07-20T21:37:21Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Does anybody remember the old 50’s movie “The Young Lions”? > In the flick, Montgomery Cliff plays a Jewish corporal who is being hassled by his company sergeant. The sergeant spies a copy of “Ulysses” in Cliff’s footlocker, and yells at him “that’s a dirty book-get rid of it”. > It always made me wonder how an army DI/sergeant would have known anything about such a weird book as “Ulysses”-much less browbeat a private for having a copy. My response would be: “You would throw out a book about the guy who helped win the Civil War? Commie!” Or alternatively, the book about the guy who spent 20 years at sea due to hubris. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/60 "2012-07-20T22:02:13Z")
_Foucault’s Pendulum_, by Umberto Eco. It’s one of my very favorite books, and has helped shaped my world-view, but it is _extremely_ allusive and abstruse and thus challenging. Doesn’t help that it starts _in medias res_ with a narrator who may or may not be experiencing a psychotic break. It’s worth slogging through, though, and there is in fact a decent plot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745.md?page=4)