# What is the most difficult modern English book to understand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 19, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745 "2012-07-19T17:12:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/61 "2012-07-21T03:16:34Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Anything by James Joyce. > > You can close the thread now. Noooo, I love James Joyce. His wit can be obscure, but figuring it out is part of the fun. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/62 "2012-07-21T03:22:05Z")
Le Guin’s _Buffalo Gals_ was a very tough read for me. At the time, I was having a lot of difficulty in my life and I actually gave up on it. She’s an author I adore and I actually gave the book away (it was laughing at me, I’m sure). I wonder, if I read it now that I am older and have my head on straighter, will it still be nonsensical to me? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/63 "2012-07-21T03:32:54Z")
I think Joyce takes the cake, but I am compelled to insist that _Mason & Dixon_ is a much, much harder read than _Gravity’s Rainbow_. GR is Ikea directions for building an MC Escher infinite staircase. M&D is backcountry yokels trying to describe how to build a semiconductor. ---
**Author:** ![Animastryfe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Animastryfe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Animastryfe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/64 "2012-07-21T05:18:57Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > I’m embarrassed to admit that, for me, “War and Peace” was almost indecipherable. Of course, when I was reading it, I’d been in chemotherapy for three months and really had no brain left to keep track of all those multisyllabic names. Maybe the characters had been “Smith” or “Clark” I would have had an easier time of it. As for Faulkner, I won’t go near him. I felt stupid enough struggling with W&P. Dostoyevsky’s _Brothers Karamazov_ was the first Russian novel I read, and I had a very difficult time with it because of the Russian names, and how seemingly every character has a dozen different names. _War and Peace_ was the second Russian novel I have read. I was more used to the Russian naming style by then, but I think I will read it again within the next year (I originally finished it late last year). Now I’m reading _Anna Karenin_, which I find is much easier to understand than the other two books I mentioned due to my current semi-familiarity with Russian names. ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/65 "2012-07-22T10:46:48Z")
I can’t believe that no one’s mentioned _Atlanta Nights_ by Travis Tea. Or does it not count because it was intentionally written so as to be indecipherable (missing chapters, duplicate chapters, random computer-generated text, etc)? I bought a copy of it a few years back just to see if it was as bad as described. It was. On a related note, I challenge anyone to read aloud _The Eye of Argon_, in one sitting, without any breaks for laughter (or crying - from the pain brought about by trying to stifle the laughter). ---
**Author:** ![bppubjr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df788c/32.png) [@bppubjr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bppubjr)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/66 "2012-07-23T01:15:26Z")
I accidentally picked up Samuel Delaney’s Dhalgren in an airport some years back. Couldn’t get through much of that at all. Went back later and read about it on wikipedia, and realized I wouldn’t have cared for it even if it had been a little easier. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/67 "2012-07-23T01:47:15Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I found House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski difficult. The confused side notes, digressions and asides are part of the theme and I’m pretty sure you aren’t even supposed to make sense of it. I love that book. it’s probably in my top five. It’s also a ton of fun to read on the subway, and enjoy the bewildered looks from people who see me turning it aroundandaroundandaround. 🙂 I actually came in here to mention Mason & Dixon, which I gave up on. Just didn’t care enough to keep going. I haven’t attempted Gravity’s Rainbow yet but it’s on my list of things to do before I die. So is Infinite Jest, which has sat on the shelf taunting me for years now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/68 "2012-07-23T02:14:40Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > “The Glass Bead Game”, by Hermann Hesse. > > Yeah, yeah, it won the Nobel Prize, it was still a slog to get through, and I adored some of his other books! As is usually the case, Hesse won the NPfL for his entire body of work, not just for that novel. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/69 "2012-07-23T07:26:30Z")
I found that _Radix_ by A A Attanasio was a pretty hard slog. And I speak as one who enjoyed Rudy Rucker’s book on infinity. It was a long time ago and I don’t remember whether I finished it. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/70 "2012-07-23T07:44:29Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Who can fail to be moved by [this passage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Principia_Mathematica_theorem_54-43.png) from page 362 of volume 1? Too many characters and not enough plot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lizard\_of\_Oz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@The\_Lizard\_of\_Oz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lizard_of_Oz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/71 "2012-07-23T19:31:02Z")
> [@smsaks2000](#): > > Gravity’s Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon. Brutal… I thought that was a wonderful book… definitely not as brutal as Finnegans Wake. Not even close. I had to reread some things a couple of times, but that’s what makes a good book. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/72 "2012-07-23T22:55:04Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Finnegans Wake is not a book. It’s a joke. It’s also only arguably English, so it gets disqualified for two reasons. Simply not true. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/73 "2012-07-23T22:56:29Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > It’s easy to remember. The title that rapes the rules of grammar is the work that rapes the English language. :dubious: It doesn’t necessarily “rape the rules of grammar,” though - read it as an imperative or as a complete sentence! ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/74 "2012-07-23T22:57:51Z")
Anyway, my vote is to William Gaddis’s _JR_. I read _The Recognitions_ with pleasure, though it took a long time, but this gave me a headache that got worse with each page. I’m sure someday I’ll read it, probably when I’m old and gray, but for now I think it’s just too much. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/75 "2012-07-23T23:56:25Z")
Didn’t finish _Finnegans Wake_ (did anybody?), but I have read _Gravity’s Rainbow_ and _Ulysses_, and found GR much more difficult. And I maintain that if you can get through the first 150 pages of GR, you can basically tell people you’ve read it - it’s not as if it becomes increasingly more brilliant in the following 600 pages or anything (IMHO). I also found John Dos Passos’s _USA Trilogy_ pretty far up there on the difficulty scale. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/76 "2012-07-24T00:22:29Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > It doesn’t necessarily “rape the rules of grammar,” though - read it as an imperative or as a complete sentence! Needs a comma then: “Finnegans, wake!” as in, Finnegan family, wake up! Without the comma, it sound better to me as “the Finnegans wake.” ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/77 "2012-07-24T01:15:32Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I love that book. it’s probably in my top five. It’s also a ton of fun to read on the subway, and enjoy the bewildered looks from people who see me turning it aroundandaroundandaround. 🙂 > > I actually came in here to mention Mason & Dixon, which I gave up on. Just didn’t care enough to keep going. I haven’t attempted Gravity’s Rainbow yet but it’s on my list of things to do before I die. So is Infinite Jest, which has sat on the shelf taunting me for years now. > [@Ravenman](#): > > I think Joyce takes the cake, but I am compelled to insist that _Mason & Dixon_ is a much, much harder read than _Gravity’s Rainbow_. GR is Ikea directions for building an MC Escher infinite staircase. M&D is backcountry yokels trying to describe how to build a semiconductor. I agree that _Mason & Dixon_ is a harder read than _Gravity’s Rainbow_. I know I read it, but I couldn’t tell you anything about it, other than it wasn’t worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/78 "2012-07-24T01:24:38Z")
> [@smsaks2000](#): > > Gravity’s Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon. Brutal… I read about 50 pages and gave up. I’m willing to work for my literature, but not that much. Faulkner’s _the Sound and the Fury_ is the one that does it for me. Jaysus. Even my literature degree didn’t penetrate that one, and I studied it in two different classes! ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/79 "2012-07-24T18:47:47Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Holy shit. I remember having to read _The Scarlett Letter_ in the 11th grade and wanting to tear the fucking book to shreds the entire time. It’s been a few years since then so maybe now I could get a better handle on it, but gawddamn that book made no fucking sense to me at the time. I came in here to post the exact same book! Exact same grade as well. God, I hated that book with a passion. And this is coming from a person who loves to read. I went back to my old high school and found that they don’t use that book anymore, can’t say I’m surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745/80 "2012-07-24T21:56:39Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Who can fail to be moved by [this passage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Principia_Mathematica_theorem_54-43.png) from page 362 of volume 1? RIP Logicism [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-difficult-modern-english-book-to-understand/628745.md?page=5)