# What is the most fundamental contradiction in the Bible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 19, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529 "2002-04-19T15:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/61 "2002-04-22T01:31:45Z")
Again I ask, is your perception that of “absolute evil”, acts that are evil no matter what religious sect you follow? Did those who perpetrated the acts of September 11th think that they were doing evil? ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/62 "2002-04-22T01:40:13Z")
From John 8: > [@](#): > > But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. > But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” From Deuteronomy 22: > [@](#): > > If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” then the girl’s father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl’s father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. > If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. FInally, the bit about the sons - also Deuteronomy: > [@](#): > > If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. All in all, that book of the bible is one of the best examples I have seen of the cruel and ugly nature of it’s philosophy. Stone your son for acting up. Yeah, sounds like a kind and loving god to me. :rolleyes: If any _human_ were to propose the same punishment for the same offenses today, he would be considered cruel and his barbaric ideas would be dismissed by reasonable and compassionate people. The christian god deserves the same treatment. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Gr8Kat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gr8kat/32/18668_2.png) [@Gr8Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gr8Kat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/63 "2002-04-22T01:54:34Z")
How much more information do you need? Mark 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. Matthew 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Luke 24:1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. (Verse 10 goes on to say it was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, “and the others with them.”) John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. So right off the bat, the writers of the Gospels can’t even figure out who, besides Mary Magdalene, discovered the empty tomb. And not one of them even mentions if anyone actually witnessed the resurrection itself. The characters in the stories all seem to think the body was stolen until they are told otherwise, despite Jesus having told them that he will be killed and rise again on the third day. _See_ Matthew 16:21, Mark 8:31, and Luke 9:22. Furthermore, the Gospels display a shocking lack of knowledge of Jewish custom because they assert that the women went Sunday morning “after the Sabbath.” The Sabbath would have officially ended on Saturday after sundown, though. If they believe Jesus to be dead and decomposing in the grave for two or three days, then why would they go when the sun is about to rise and make things hot and more uncomfortable (ever smelled a dead thing in the heat of the day?) instead of going in the cool of the night? Why even go at all? What are they supposed to accomplish? Joseph of Arimathea was supposed to have already had the body prepared with 75 pounds(!) of aloe and myrrh (_see_ John 19:38, 39). How much more seasoning did he need? You can read the chapters cited above for yourself. They can’t agree on who went to the empty tomb, what they saw when they got there, who they told, to whom Jesus appeared after the resurrection, and so on. When you read the Bible Gateway version of [Mark 16](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Mark+16&version=NIV-IBS&showfn=yes&showxref=yes&language=english), at least it’s honest enough to say the original text ended at verse 8 and the parts about Jesus appearing to the Eleven and ascending into heaven were added later. (This kind of revising appears to have happened a lot during the early centuries of the church. The earliest versions gospels fail to mention any kind of resurrection, but resurrection was an important part of many Middle Eastern mystery cults. Adonis, Tammuz, Attis, Osiris, Mithra, and more all were murdered by evil, descended into the netherworld, and were resurrected. If Jesus was going to compete, he had to get in on the act because the pagans were not going to be impressed by a god that died and stayed dead.) As for the web site that supposedly answers the contradictions, all it does is combine the texts. That kind of “logic” would never stand up in a court of law. Just imagine that kind of a trial: “Witness A says Joe hit the pedestrian while driving East in a red Cadillac, while Witness B says Mike hit the pedestrian while driving South in a blue Buick, and Witness C says Mike and Joe were both in a yellow Datsun traveling West when they ran down the pedestrian. So, even though we can’t even find the pedestrian or any of the cars, we better hang both Mike and Joe.” It does not add up. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/64 "2002-04-22T02:28:27Z")
**David** , if God got rid of evil, He would also have to get rid of free will. We would be reduced to automatons. I believe that it is infinitely better to have the choice between good and evil, rather than to have no consciousness whatsoever… ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/65 "2002-04-22T03:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\* Stone your son for acting up. Yeah, sounds like a kind and loving god to me. \*\* I don’t suppose you want to hear that under Jewish law that never happened. There is an entire chapter in the Talmud (in Sanhedrin) devoted to the laws of _ben sorer u’moreh_ (the wayward and rebellious son). Under the laws mentioned in that chapter, it is nearly impossible to ever execute a son under the law of _ben sorer u’moreh_. In fact, the Talmud even goes so far as to expecilitly state that such a case never occured and never will. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Gr8Kat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gr8kat/32/18668_2.png) [@Gr8Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gr8Kat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/66 "2002-04-22T03:27:23Z")
Let’s see if this flies as a contradiction: In Isaiah chapter 7 we find, “1 When Ahaz son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, was king of Judah, King Rezin of Aram and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel marched up to fight against Jerusalem, but they could not overpower it. 2 Now the house of David was told, ‘Aram has allied itself with Ephraim’; so the hearts of Ahaz and his people were shaken, as the trees of the forest are shaken by the wind.” Ahaz was scared his kingdom was in jeopardy. So God sent Isaiah to tell Ahaz to not to that his Kingdom will be taken over because “It will not take place, it will not happen,” (Isaiah 7:4-9). Then God tells Ahaz to ask for a sign, but Ahaz refuses, so Isaiah gets all huffy and says, "Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. " v. 13-17. Then, in chapter 18, Isaiah describes laying with a prophetess and making a baby. And God says, “Before the boy knows how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.” V. 4 However, the prophecy must have failed, because 2 Chronicles 28 describes God handing Ahaz and his kingdom over to Aram. (v. 5) OR DID IT?? Because, 400 years later, the virgin Mary conceived and bore a son which, according to Matthew 1:22, 23 fulfills Isaiah’s prophecy. So when Isaiah prophesied about a virgin bearing a son to King Ahaz as proof God wouldn’t let his kingdom fall, he actually meant that the Messiah would be born 400 years later? If that’s not a “contradiction” in the strictest sense, it is at least a big inconsistency. (Although, this may be another contradiction, 2 Kings 16:7 says that Tiglath-Pileser king of Assyria bailed Ahaz out, so was he defeated or not? I can’t tell.) ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/67 "2002-04-22T03:29:38Z")
And with regard to the second quote by **Dalovindj** , Jewish law makes it much harder for such a sentence to be carried out than a simple reading of the verses would lead one to believe. First of all, it would have to be proven that the woman betrayed her husband during her betrothal. If it was done before her betrothal, she is not guilty of the capital crime. Secondly, even if it was done during the betrothal, the chances of the new bride being executed are remote. Please see [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2014702#post2014702) that I posted a few days ago outlining just what is required to have the death penalty carried out under Jewish law. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![continuum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@continuum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/continuum)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/68 "2002-04-22T03:31:19Z")
The terms “mistake” and “contradiction” are too limiting. As we know the Bible, they are inaccuracies brought on by translation. That’s why so many scholars go back to the original text to read it. And, we as humans are unable to comprehend the entire meaning of it. However, with the help of the Holy Spirit, we can acquire greater spiritual meaning from the Bible as needed. No, we aren’t going to be able to completely understand everything that was said, but we don’t need to. God will reveal that which is necessary when we need that help. Secondly, when Jesus cursed a fig tree, he certainly did curse it. But “forty days and forty nights” is meant to be interpreted as “a lot of time.” This comes from the fact that in the middle eastern culture of the time, the number 40 represented a lot of something. Remember that the Bible was written by humans, as inspired by God, for humans that lived over 2000 years ago. While the message is unchanged, the culture is not. Not everything is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![continuum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@continuum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/continuum)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/69 "2002-04-22T03:49:33Z")
To clarify, I said this to point out that literal interpretations are not always the most accurate, especially when one looks to the spiritual side of things. And I do wish people would realize the difference between the OT and the NT. There was a period of 400 years between the two. When Jesus came to earth, his purpose was to create a New Covenant with man–all of mankind–that overruled the old one. He was to teach people and educate them on the rules, and to dismiss ones that no longer applied to an up and coming civilization. Id et, He was an entirely new chapter to Jewish history. After that, He was to die on the cross and three days later conquer death. He did. Old laws were cast out. People were no longer killing lambs on the altar. Ergo, the contradictions between OT and NT pretty much null. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/70 "2002-04-22T03:59:15Z")
**Gr8Kat** , I don’t think you’ve done a proper job of reading these passages, or the web site to which I pointed you. Remember, if you’re going to claim that a contradiction occurs, then the burden of proof rests upon YOU to show that these passages are utterly irreconcilable. So Mark said that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome visited the tomb, whereas Matthew said that Mary Magdalene and “the other Mary.” Are they both right? Well, if Mark is correct, then Matthew is correct too. After all, Matthew didn’t claim that _only_ Mary Magdalene and the second Mary visited said tomb. Ditto for the other passages which you cited. Remember: The burden of proof rests on the person who claims that there is no way that both passages can be true. Only then can a genuine “contradiction” be claimed. Now one might ask, “But wait! Why don’t these Evangelists report this event in exactly the same way?” Well first, there may be any number of reasons, but that’s irrelevant to the question of whether a contradiction exists. And second, if they had reported in exactly the same way, then one could accuse them of collusion in their reporting. In fact, historians routinely expect minor (but not necessarily irreconcilable) differences in the details of historical accounts, as this comes naturally when different people report on the same event. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/71 "2002-04-22T04:06:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*Again I ask, is your perception that of “absolute evil”, acts that are evil no matter what religious sect you follow? Did those who perpetrated the acts of September 11th think that they were doing evil? \*\* Are you suggesting that if they didn’t _think_ they were doing evil, that they did not indeed commit evil? Because if you do, then you can not legitimately accuse God or Christians of doing evil, when they act in accordance with Christian teaching. Remember, this topic came up becaus David accused God of allowing evil to exist, and claimed that this constituted a contradiction (which it does not, but more on that later). If we adopt such a fluid definition of evil – one where evil is merely in the beholder’s eye – then such an accusation becomes meaningless. After all, if God does not consider it to be evil, then he is not guilty of the implied hypocrisy. And as I said, even if we grant that, it’s still not a contradiction. Remember what I said earlier… We must make clear distinctions between exegetical difficulties and genuine contradictions. Asking why God would ever allow evil to exist is a Biblical difficulty, but not a contradiction _per se_. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/72 "2002-04-22T04:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Soup\_du\_jour \* > **David, if God got rid of evil, He would also have to get rid of free will. We would be reduced to automatons.** In fact, when people complain about God allowing evil, it seems they only refer to the evil committed by _others_. I have yet to hear a skeptic ask why God doesn’t stop _him_ from committing acts of sinfulness. And why don’t we ask such things? Because we don’t want to give up free will. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/73 "2002-04-22T04:10:00Z")
**zev** , I didn’t see any reference to any of the procedures you talked about in that post in the bible while reading deuteronomy. Why should I interpret that passage to mean anything other than what it says? Either way, whether you need a bunch of judges or bunch of elders or whatever - the idea that stoning someone for such an offense is reasonable is barbaric, ugly, and goes a long way to show the mindset of the people who wrote this garbage down. You say there is some sort of loophole so that chances of someone getting killed for these expressions of free will and choice becomes “remote.” I say that if the text has to be contradicted to make sense, then that just further weakens the consistency and validity of the material. I have a theory. Everyone who believes this stuff is getting hoodwinked. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/74 "2002-04-22T04:34:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gr8Kat \* > \*\*As for the web site that supposedly answers the contradictions, all it does is combine the texts. That kind of “logic” would never stand up in a court of law. Just imagine that kind of a trial: “Witness A says Joe hit the pedestrian while driving East in a red Cadillac, while Witness B says Mike hit the pedestrian while driving South in a blue Buick, and Witness C says Mike and Joe were both in a yellow Datsun traveling West when they ran down the pedestrian. So, even though we can’t even find the pedestrian or any of the cars, we better hang both Mike and Joe.” It does not add up. \*\* Your specific example does not add up because the testimonies are mutually exclusive. That is not the case with the gospel accounts of the resurrection… as explained earlier. They list different sets of women, but not a single one of the accounts says “ONLY \ went, and nobody else.” Newspaper accounts and history books do this all the time. A history book may record that Nixon went to China in 1972, but it won’t necessarily mention everyone in his entourage – not even the high-ranking officials. When relating a story to co-workers, I may say “I went to Nevada last week,” but I would not be implying that I’m the only one. Again, you seem to be seeing the word “only” inserted into the text, where none exists. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/75 "2002-04-22T13:48:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\ ***zev** , I didn’t see any reference to any of the procedures you talked about in that post in the bible while reading deuteronomy. Why should I interpret that passage to mean anything other than what it says? \*\* I wasn’t asking you to interpret it any other way. Since (AFAIK) you aren’t Jewish, I don’t expect you to take Jewish oral and legal traditions into account. I was just pointing it out “matter-of-factly”. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![continuum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@continuum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/continuum)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/76 "2002-04-22T14:07:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*The idea that stoning someone for such an offense is reasonable is barbaric, ugly, and goes a long way to show the mindset of the people who wrote this garbage down. > \*\* What you are trying to do is to apply a BC culture to today. No matter what culture you look at, it can’t work. Not one was as refined or culturally mature as you might think that we are (which is a debate in and of itself). Even if you took the culture of the Middle Ages, it would still seem barbaric. So, no, you cannot try to do that. The rules were for the overall spiritual and physical well-being of the Hebrew people. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/77 "2002-04-22T14:19:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by continuum \* > \*\* > > What you are trying to do is to apply a BC culture to today. No matter what culture you look at, it can’t work. Not one was as refined or culturally mature as you might think that we are (which is a debate in and of itself). Even if you took the culture of the Middle Ages, it would still seem barbaric. So, no, you cannot try to do that. The rules were for the overall spiritual and physical well-being of the Hebrew people. \*\* So God’s rules change based on what year it is? Cite? DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![continuum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@continuum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/continuum)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/78 "2002-04-22T14:44:35Z")
In a sense. Those were general rules for living based on a certain culture. Needless to say, culture changes, therefore, certain other things have to change. That was the point of Jesus coming to earth. I mean, I don’t see anyone sacrificing lambs anymore. Basically, Jesus changed everything. Many of the food rules were created for health reasons. And, back then, certain things were classified as crimes worthy of capital punishment. And, to be honest, is that really any more barbaric than beheading or electrocuting a person? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/79 "2002-04-22T14:55:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Furthermore, IIRC, bible scholars indicate that the bible should be taken literally unless indicated internally otherwise. You don’t RC. **Fundamentalist** (AKA literalist) bible scholars do hold that view. They are in a minority among those trained in the disciplines of biblical analysis and exegesis. Check with any group of ten reputable seminaries; you’ll find that it’s about 8:2 in favor of interpretive analysis, rather than literalism. The other point I’d like to make is that the particular sub-thread discussion on relative vs. absolute evil need not be examining some abstract “absolute” but rather what might be absolute as regards human beings. To show what I mean, consider the proposition that an adult male should/should not mate with his mother. The negative is probably as close to an absolute as we get across human cultures, but the positive is entirely appropriate and expected of many social insects. It’s the Christian understanding that while God can bring good out of evil, nonetheless humans are instructed not to commit evil deeds. Definitions of what is evil vary substantially within a general set of themes. There are a large group of Christians, for example, who hold that the various legal provisions of Scripture are to be understood within a “constitutional” framework of actions showing love of God and of one’s fellow humans, and are to be followed only to the extent that they meet those overarching moral guidelines. That is, just as a law, innocuous in and of itself, may be applied in ways that violate the Bill of Rights, and as applied to those particular cases may be unconstitutional, so any “Thou shalt/shalt not” passage is to be applied if and only if it conforms to love of God and man. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529/80 "2002-04-22T15:00:17Z")
\*\*Soup\_du\_jour wrote: David, if God got rid of evil, He would also have to get rid of free will. We would be reduced to automatons. \*\* I’ve always been bothered by this as it seems to be a strawman argument. You either do it God’s way or you’re doing something evil. There’s not inbetween, acts that are neither good nor evil. Prehaps **this** is the contradiction the OP is looking for. The J/C/I God is saying _Do it my way or you’re doing evil_ when obviously there are other choices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-fundamental-contradiction-in-the-bible/104529.md?page=5)