# What is the most overrated virtue? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 28, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271 "2022-05-28T20:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/1 "2022-05-28T20:56:53Z")
_“It’s my opinion that every one I know has morals, though I wouldn’t like to ask. I know I have. But I’d rather teach them than practice them any day. “Give them to others”–that’s my motto._ Mark Twain Virtues are important for developing character. No one has all of them. Hypocrites have them in public. Some are better than others. **But in your experience, which virtues are most overrated by others?** ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/2 "2022-05-28T21:06:01Z")
If we’re talking about the traditional Christian virtues, I’ll go with ‘Chastity’. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/3 "2022-05-28T21:22:06Z")
Disgust, respect for authority, and loyalty. Obviously, in Moral Foundations Theory I’m a classic liberal. Seriously, how does “loyalty” even pass the smell test? As I understand, it means when your friends do something wrong, you double down with them. So, it’s unethical by its definition. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/4 "2022-05-28T22:15:29Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Seriously, how does “loyalty” even pass the smell test? As I understand, it means when your friends do something wrong, you double down with them. So, it’s unethical by its definition. I’m on your team here, but this one is easy enough to understand. It’s the moral label for this impulse: > [@](#): > > Me against my brother. > My brother and me against our cousin. > Me & my kin against our neighbor. > My kin & my neighbor against the next town. > Our towns against the next state over. > … A tried and true saying. That personifies what is IMO the fundamental flaw of human nature. The inability to realize that Us and Them are the same people. Loyalty is the moral label given to the idea of treasuring Us and devaluing Them. There are certainly higher better purposes to which it can be put, but at base, loyalty is a bargain with the Devil. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/5 "2022-05-28T23:26:57Z")
Forgiveness. It has always seemed to me that the act requires the participant to adopt an air of moral superiority that makes it a case of, “I am right and you are wrong.” I have suffered harm, some quite serious, from the actions of other people and, while I hold no grudges or ill will toward them, I don’t think it is my place to forgive them. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/6 "2022-05-28T23:59:27Z")
Most virtues can be made toxic. In my opinion, the most common in America is “individualism” - so much selfish bullshit is slathered with a coating of “I have to be me/I’m being true to myself/I’m a nonconformist.” Rather than conceding a view is wrong or based solely on preference, the problem is everyone else are sheep. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/7 "2022-05-29T00:18:24Z")
Unselfishness, with forgiveness as a close second. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/8 "2022-05-29T01:28:43Z")
> [@epbrown](#): > > Most virtues can be made toxic. This, so much of this. Really, very few of the classic virtues, western or otherwise are bad, or overrated, but people most certainly are! And a huge number of people use their pride of virtue as an excuse for the absolute worst actions imaginable. While I’m not sure I would call it the most overrated, the one that normally gets under my skin the most is _honesty_. Because I’ve lost track of the number of times (on this board, or elsewhere) someone has said something along the line of “I’m not racist/sexist/etc, I just honestly think ( horrible racist/sexist/etc truism)” It makes me climb the walls. Because they’re being ‘honest’ I’m expected to give said horrible sentiment credence and acceptance. Aaaaand now I need a drink. Take that as another virtue that can be tossed aside. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/9 "2022-05-29T01:51:17Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Disgust, respect for authority, and loyalty. Obviously, in Moral Foundations Theory I’m a classic liberal. When has disgust ever been considered a virtue? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/10 "2022-05-29T02:09:13Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > If we’re talking about the traditional Christian virtues, I’ll go with ‘Chastity’. Agreed, but isn’t “faith” the standout example here? It’s not just an overrated virtue, it’s not a virtue at all. It’s a cognitive defect to stubbornly maintain one’s beliefs in the face of evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/11 "2022-05-29T02:21:35Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Agreed, but isn’t “faith” the standout example here? It’s not just an overrated virtue, it’s not a virtue at all. It’s a cognitive defect to stubbornly maintain one’s beliefs in the face of evidence to the contrary. Faith isn’t one of the traditional virtues in Christianity. Charity/generosity, patience, dilligence, modesty, kindness, patience, and modesty are the 7 traditional Christian virtues. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/12 "2022-05-29T02:22:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Charity/generosity, patience, dilligence, modesty, kindness, patience, and modesty So they were doing a hard sell on the modesty? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/13 "2022-05-29T02:23:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So they were doing a hard sell on the modesty? “The meek shall become the ballers of the Earth.” – Jesus Christ in his Sermon on the Mount, Def Jam Translation of the Bible Okay, gratitude. Like the gratitude I have for having my error pointed out! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/14 "2022-05-29T02:32:16Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > the 7 traditional Christian virtues I must admit (although raised as a Christian) I had never heard of this. Are you talking about this Catholic thing? This seems to have _two_ sets of seven, with faith showing up in one list. > **[Seven virtues](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues)** > > In Christian history, the seven heavenly virtues combine the four cardinal virtues of prudence, justice, temperance, and fortitude with the three theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity. > The seven capital virtues, also known as seven lively virtues, contrary or remedial virtues, are those opposite to the seven deadly sins. They are often enumerated as chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, kindness, patience, and humility. > The term "cardinal virtues" (virtutes cardinales) was first u... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/15 "2022-05-29T03:28:12Z")
In my opinion, piety is clearly the most overrated virtue. At least other virtues are directed towards other people. Piety is showing respect to something which probably doesn’t exist. And if it does exist, it has no need of human belief. Piety is just wasted effort that could be better spent on something useful. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/16 "2022-05-29T10:40:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > When has disgust ever been considered a virtue? In the sense of purity and disdain for impurity. For example, people who are disgusted by a demographic identity consider their disgust a virtue. It’s thought to have entered the pantheon of human virtues by repurposing an instinct we already had, which helped us avoid contagious disease, toward hatred of groups of people we don’t belong to. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/17 "2022-05-29T11:09:14Z")
Altruism. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/18 "2022-05-29T11:20:46Z")
Humility. You ever tried playing Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar as the Shepherd? It makes the early game a complete pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/19 "2022-05-29T12:35:17Z")
Patriotism. The louder you holler it, the more you ain’t. Do you pay your taxes even though you feel the system isn’t fair? Do you vote though you think it’s a waste of time? Do you keep your property presentable? Would you do your part if we went to war? These are just a few of the things that demonstrate your true patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/20 "2022-05-29T12:57:03Z")
Roz Chast’s take: [![](https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/2312727611_6bf54351a4.jpg) ](https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/2312727611_6bf54351a4.jpg) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271.md?page=2)