# What is the most overrated virtue? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 28, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271 "2022-05-28T20:56:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/61 "2022-06-03T15:20:10Z")
If we’re not going off of some established, formal list, I would say church attendance. I’ve seen this used often in the US by victims or survivors of something or as some sort of background info when, in fact, it is completely meaningless and not worth mentioning. “We go to church and then this [bad thing] happened” or “We met at church” are no better or worse than saying “We go to the pub and then…” or “We met at McDonald’s”. I guess it’s related to god-fearing. Every time I hear it my internal reaction ranges from “so what” to “aren’t you special”. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/62 "2022-06-03T16:58:54Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > > [@Napier](#): > > > > Seriously, how does “loyalty” even pass the smell test? As I understand, it means when your friends do something wrong, you double down with them. So, it’s unethical by its definition. > > I’m on your team here, but this one is easy enough to understand. It’s the moral label for this impulse: > > > [@](#): > > > > Me against my brother. > > My brother and me against our cousin. > > Me & my kin against our neighbor. > > My kin & my neighbor against the next town. > > Our towns against the next state over. > > … > > A tried and true saying. That personifies what is IMO the fundamental flaw of human nature. The inability to realize that Us and Them are the same people. Loyalty is the moral label given to the idea of treasuring Us and devaluing Them. > > There are certainly higher better purposes to which it can be put, but at base, loyalty is a bargain with the Devil. Another way to put this, though, might be “Loyalty is the mechanism by which we prioritize relationships that are most important to us over those that matter less.” Ultimately, it is hard or impossible to have an equal amount of compassion or caring for all human beings. Loyalty is perhaps the mechanism that lets us not have to evaluate every action or choice against its impact on every person. Our relationships define our actions. To either extreme, loyalty leads to selfish, destructive, or self-destructive behavior, but in moderation it enables us to function as cohesive units with common self-interest. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/63 "2022-06-04T05:11:27Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Patriotism. The louder you holler it, the more you ain’t… This is a classic example of what I call « the Sexy Rule »: if you have to _tell_ someone that you’re sexy… you aren’t. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/64 "2022-06-04T14:15:45Z")
Overall, the thread does seem to be settling on “piety” as the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/65 "2022-06-04T14:24:17Z")
Only one person before you has mentioned piety by that name. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/66 "2022-06-04T14:26:43Z")
I know, but that word seems to cover the general theme. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/67 "2022-06-04T15:08:18Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Disgust, respect for authority, and loyalty. Obviously, in Moral Foundations Theory I’m a classic liberal. In the current climate, I’d say “Respect for authority” is a virtue. Not blind faith obviously, but respecting that people who have formally studied a subject, and who have published their data and research publically, in a community in which such data is scrutinized in detail, probably know more than a rando’s WAG or a some TV pundit pretending to “just ask questions”. If more people had this attribute maybe we’d be getting on top of threats like climate change and would have taken covid more seriously etc. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/68 "2022-06-04T17:31:16Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > There are certainly higher better purposes to which it can be put, but at base, loyalty is a bargain with the Devil. I think loyalty has to start with being loyal to your own morals. I had a business partner that I parted ways with because I would not cover up for him cheating on his wife. He accused me of not being loyal. I consider myself to be a very loyal person but my loyalty will never go against my morals no matter who it is. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/69 "2022-06-04T17:36:05Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I think loyalty has to start with being loyal to your own morals. I like that. It’s a trenchant response if a “friend” accuses you of disloyalty when you won’t endorse their scummy behavior. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/70 "2022-06-04T21:25:36Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > The Muppets had a TV special called, “The Seven Deadly Sins Special,” where skits and song-and-dance illustrated the 7 Deadlies. There’s an old book: [https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Deadly-Sins-Greatest-Commenting/dp/B000X92B7I](https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Deadly-Sins-Greatest-Commenting/dp/B000X92B7I) Some of them are rather dated, but I loved the chapter on Gluttony. I’d never heard of Patrick Leigh Fermor before. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/71 "2022-06-04T22:33:49Z")
“Cyril Connolly?” “No, semi-carnally.” ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/72 "2022-06-04T23:17:42Z")
Hee hee. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/73 "2022-06-04T23:29:39Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > There’s an old book: > > [https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Deadly-Sins-Greatest-Commenting/dp/B000X92B7I](https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Deadly-Sins-Greatest-Commenting/dp/B000X92B7I) > > Some of them are rather dated, but I loved the chapter on Gluttony. I’d never heard of Patrick Leigh Fermor before. Believe it or not, there’s also a science fiction anthology. [http://www.asimovreviews.net/Books/Book221.html](http://www.asimovreviews.net/Books/Book221.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/74 "2022-06-04T23:45:43Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > hasty acts of sloth can be done, if the details are very carefully planned and managed. Oh, that sounds like way too much work. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/75 "2022-06-05T00:48:36Z")
> [@epbrown](#): > > Overall, the thread does seem to be settling on “piety” as the winner. I thought that was already rated extremely low here. And it’s rated pretty low in much of the outside world. For example - China. My nomination is honesty. And not in the sense of politely overlooking failings in others. Lying is a human universal. Not thinking of any one here, but sometimes I’ve seen people get so upset about lying, on the web, as to hope they don’t have any teenage children. Not that bad behavior by children should be ignored. What should be usually ignored is the lie about the bad behavior. We in the U.S., until last year, had a President who lies a lot more than is normal. This shouldn’t be allowed to obscure that people can’t get by without lying, especially if they have more than the tiniest bit of power. Now, I should personally try to avoid lying. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/76 "2022-06-05T01:26:24Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > My nomination is honesty. How can we be sure? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/77 "2022-06-05T01:45:22Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > My nomination is honesty. It’s such a lonely word Everyone is so untrue ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/78 "2022-06-06T16:21:28Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > In the current climate, I’d say “Respect for authority” is a virtue. Not blind faith obviously, but respecting that people who have formally studied a subject, and who have published their data and research publically, in a community in which such data is scrutinized in detail, probably know more than a rando’s WAG or a some TV pundit pretending to “just ask questions”. That’s respect for expertise, not for authority. There are no authorities in the sciences. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/79 "2022-06-06T16:48:22Z")
Well it depends on what the OP was getting at. My suspicion was that “respect for authority” was referring to “trusting the _so-called_ experts” i.e. the kind of thing that people say when they have no interest in data or research and just want to go with their gut. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271/80 "2022-06-06T17:06:18Z")
No, “authority” has more than one meaning. It can mean an expert, or it can mean someone in a position of power, control, or leadership: an authority figure, a person in authority over you. To a child, this would be parents, teachers, babysitters, etc. To an adult it would be bosses, political leaders, etc. My assumption is that “respect for authority” refers to the latter kind of authority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-most-overrated-virtue/965271.md?page=5)