# What is the name for this conundrum, the solution is the cause of the problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 16, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375 "2016-04-16T17:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/1 "2016-04-16T17:38:46Z")
Here is an example. A government engages in human rights abuses to suppress dissent by the public. Human rights abuses piss off the population and make people sympathetic to dissenters. The government responds by increasing human rights abuses to suppress the increase in dissent. The people respond by becoming stronger dissenters due to growing disgust at the increase in human rights abuses. What is the name for this situation? The solution (engage in human rights abuses) is the cause of the problem that it seeks to solve (a public that is angry at an unfair government)? ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/2 "2016-04-16T17:40:24Z")
Downward spiral? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/3 "2016-04-16T18:12:46Z")
Feedback loop? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/4 "2016-04-16T18:21:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Here is an example. > > A government engages in human rights abuses to suppress dissent by the public. Human rights abuses piss off the population and make people sympathetic to dissenters. The government responds by increasing human rights abuses to suppress the increase in dissent. The people respond by becoming stronger dissenters due to growing disgust at the increase in human rights abuses. > > What is the name for this situation? The solution (engage in human rights abuses) is the cause of the problem that it seeks to solve (a public that is angry at an unfair government)? Vicious circle [Vicious circle - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuous_circle_and_vicious_circle) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/5 "2016-04-16T18:46:13Z")
Positive feedback (in addition to the others). And…obviously I mean it in the technical sense. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/6 "2016-04-16T19:02:52Z")
It’s a feedback loop. Two operators, with the output from each feeding the input of the other. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/7 "2016-04-16T19:07:41Z")
_A man often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it._ - Master Oogway. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/8 "2016-04-16T19:59:45Z")
The law of unintended consequences? ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/9 "2016-04-16T23:40:02Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Vicious circle [Vicious circle - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuous_circle_and_vicious_circle) Definitely “Vicious Circle” ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/10 "2016-04-17T00:01:36Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > _A man often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it._ - Master Oogway. “To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.” - Homer Simpson ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/11 "2016-04-17T00:14:10Z")
This is pretty much the same type of thing that keeps gang rivalries going in a perpetuity. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/12 "2016-04-17T01:46:58Z")
It is also what terrorists are doing when they set off bombs or shoot up cafés. They make sure that everyone knows that they are Jeddi: The government and the rest of the population start to persecute Jeddi, who are mostly totally innocent. This drives more of them into the ranks of the terrorists and so on. ---
**Author:** ![bonitahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@bonitahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonitahi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/13 "2016-04-17T02:13:08Z")
Nixonism ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/14 "2016-04-17T04:43:42Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Feedback loop? Specifically, a positive feedback loop. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/15 "2016-04-18T17:42:09Z")
The beatings will continue until morale improves. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-name-for-this-conundrum-the-solution-is-the-cause-of-the-problem/752375/16 "2016-04-19T00:25:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Here is an example. > > A government engages in human rights abuses to suppress dissent by the public. Human rights abuses piss off the population and make people sympathetic to dissenters. The government responds by increasing human rights abuses to suppress the increase in dissent. The people respond by becoming stronger dissenters due to growing disgust at the increase in human rights abuses. > > What is the name for this situation? The solution (engage in human rights abuses) is the cause of the problem that it seeks to solve (a public that is angry at an unfair government)? The solution is not a solution, its a naive attempt at solving the problem. Vicious cycles do occur in biology , but they do not in conscious thought. An example of a biological vicious cycle.. You lose weight, but in winter because you no longer have a layer of insulating fat, you have to eat high energy food when outside, get addicted to it. You’d call the government short sighted, or reactive rather than planning. You’d call the reaction a knee jerk reaction. The wrong path, whether biological or conscious, could be called a “slippery slope”.