# What is the narrative of slavery apologists in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 15, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606 "2015-11-15T00:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/1 "2015-11-15T00:43:15Z")
Supposedly some people in the south are trying to sanitize slavery. What is their POV on the issue? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/2 "2015-11-15T02:23:15Z")
Not sure what you mean by “sanitize” but there are some who claim that slaves were generally well treated, particularly in comparison to the post-Civil War era of sharecropping where they (and poor whites, as well) were virtually locked into lives of poverty and debt. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/3 "2015-11-15T02:44:20Z")
Might not be what you’re looking for, but Texas just tried to start using history textbooks which described the slaves as immigrant farm workers, with no mention of that whole “slavery” thing. They just came here for the work… ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/4 "2015-11-15T03:02:22Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Might not be what you’re looking for, but Texas just tried to start using history textbooks which described the slaves as immigrant farm workers, with no mention of that whole “slavery” thing. They just came here for the work… And they were WAY into BDSM. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/5 "2015-11-15T03:03:44Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Might not be what you’re looking for, but Texas just tried to start using history textbooks which described the slaves as immigrant farm workers, with no mention of that whole “slavery” thing. They just came here for the work… If that’s the same incident I’m thinking of, you’ve overstated what happened. The big to do was over a caption that read “The Atlantic Slave Trade between the 1500s and 1800s brought millions of workers from Africa to the Southern United States …” It’s true they referred to the slaves as workers but the third word in the caption was “slave” [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/05/immigrant-workers-or-slaves-textbook-maker-backtracks-after-mothers-online-complaint/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/10/05/immigrant-workers-or-slaves-textbook-maker-backtracks-after-mothers-online-complaint/) ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/6 "2015-11-15T03:39:58Z")
How many of these have you heard: Yea, it sucked there for a while, but now they’re _ **Americans** _ It wasn’t nice, but they were no worse off then they were in _Africa_\* - - where everyone is illiterate, godless pagans, running around naked. And likely to be killed by the wildlife. And HOT - it’s HOT there, too\* The way '_they_\* act, they’re no better than animals, and should be treated as such - - you know, rape, murder, drugs - no wonder our prisons are full of them! And they can’t talk good as us. Haven’t heard this lately, but was used at the time: Only the Black African has the unique ability to work in the hot, humid hellholes which are our (very profitable) plantations. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/7 "2015-11-15T03:46:06Z")
How many of these have you heard: Yea, it sucked there for a while, but now they’re _ **Americans** _ It wasn’t nice, but they were no worse off then they were in _Africa_\* - - where everyone is illiterate, godless pagans, running around naked. And likely to be killed by the wildlife. And HOT - it’s HOT there, too\* The way '_they_\* act, they’re no better than animals, and should be treated as such - - you know, rape, murder, drugs - no wonder our prisons are full of them! And they can’t talk good as us. Haven’t heard this lately, but was used at the time: Only the Black African has the unique ability to work in the hot, humid hellholes which are our (very profitable) plantations. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/8 "2015-11-15T04:01:24Z")
You don’t have to look hard to seen it on this very board. You hear things like: - It was hard times for everyone, especially poor people. Slave owners were often pretty hard-up themselves. And look at how many people voluntarily sold themselves into indentured servitude. Everyone was suffering. - Slaves were expensive, so it wouldn’t be sensible to mistreat them and reports of abuse don’t add up. Families treated slaves as a valued asset, often as family members. - There was slavery in Africa, so it’s not like they were really worse off. - It worked out for the best in the end. Wouldn’t you rather be in America than Africa? Etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/9 "2015-11-15T04:04:28Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > If that’s the same incident I’m thinking of, you’ve overstated what happened. The big to do was over a caption that read “The Atlantic Slave Trade between the 1500s and 1800s brought millions of workers from Africa to the Southern United States …” It’s true they referred to the slaves as workers but the third word in the caption was “slave” Who’s working a narrative now? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/10 "2015-11-15T04:24:25Z")
One thing I’ve been seeing a lot of lately is ‘The Irish slaves were treated far wors, but you don’t hear _them_ complaining!’ ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/11 "2015-11-15T04:29:04Z")
I am not sure what the OP is referring to, but I’d imagine that, if you tried really hard, you could find “some people” in the north, east, and west who are trying to “sanitize” slavery as well. It is undeniable that in the 19th century (and before) slavery was an accepted institution. That does not make it right, particularly when compared to modern beliefs, but when compared to the beliefs at the time, it was an accepted practice (in the north, east, west, as well as south). I do think you would have a hard time today finding anyone in the US (or any other industrialized nation) in support of the practice. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/12 "2015-11-15T04:43:17Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > How many of these have you heard: > > Yea, it sucked there for a while, but now they’re _ **Americans** _ > > It wasn’t nice, but they were no worse off then they were in _Africa_\* > > - > - where everyone is illiterate, godless pagans, running around naked. And likely to be killed by the wildlife. And HOT - it’s HOT there, too\* > > The way '_they_\* act, they’re no better than animals, and should be treated as such > > - > - you know, rape, murder, drugs - no wonder our prisons are full of them! And they can’t talk good as us. > Haven’t heard this lately, but was used at the time: > Only the Black African has the unique ability to work in the hot, humid hellholes which are our (very profitable) plantations. I hadn’t heard any of those at all until I read your post. and your doublepost. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/13 "2015-11-15T04:46:24Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > - It worked out for the best in the end. Wouldn’t you rather be in America than Africa? I don’t agree with the premises of this one at all, but you have to admit it’s a very long-established line of thinking–including for some black folks. Phillis Wheatley, who had the _personal_ experience of being enslaved, expressed it in the 1770s. Keith Richburg, who visited Africa as a black American journalist, echoed it in the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/14 "2015-11-15T14:55:42Z")
There is also the economic necessity argument. A lot of wealth was tied up in slavery, as well as the means of production. Ending it would have impoverished the Southern landholders - which would have had negative impacts on everything from themselves to the slaves to Northern immigrants working in mills. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/15 "2015-11-15T15:07:23Z")
Everybody knew who was picking the cotton. But that didn’t stop the cotton buying, processing or wearing of it did it? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/16 "2015-11-15T15:23:25Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Everybody knew who was picking the cotton. But that didn’t stop the cotton buying, processing or wearing of it did it? Its honestly not that different than smartphones today. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/17 "2015-11-15T15:30:20Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Haven’t heard this lately, but was used at the time: > Only the Black African has the unique ability to work in the hot, humid hellholes which are our (very profitable) plantations. To be fair, the reason the Triangle Trade was so popular was because Africans were much better suited to plantation work than the Native Americans (who we’d almost finished mass murdering, anyway). Which obviously doesn’t excuse anything, but it was the basis of Bartolomé de las Casas’s ill-fated theory. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/18 "2015-11-15T16:18:10Z")
I’m not sure who the OP is talking about specifically, but here’s some more slavery apologia I’ve seen: 1. Slavery is an ancient cross cultural institution, and is approved by The Bible, so singling out the South as a unique evil isn’t fair. 2. Black families were more intact under slavery than today. 3. Depictions of cruelty are liberal propaganda and/or a few bad apples that were sensationalized to sell books or legitimize the Civil War. 4. The North was just as racist as the South. 5. There were non-white slave owners. 6. The Muslims had white Christian slaves. 7. The vast majority of Southerners didn’t own slaves. 8. Slaves were given free boarding and food. 9. It wasn’t worse than whites working in a factory or coal mines, or child labor, or the Chinese on the railroads. 10. Africans were Christianized instead of living and dying as pagans. 11. If slavery was so bad why didn’t they try to escape more? 12. Someone will try to use some metric and compare it to serfs in Russia or African countries to prove slaves had it good. Literacy, height, life expectancy, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/19 "2015-11-15T16:48:06Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > 1. It wasn’t worse than whites working in a factory or coal mines, or child labor, or the Chinese on the railroads. Or the Irish or indentured servitude or what the Jews or Romani had to live with in Europe. Or being forced into prostitution in order to feed yourself. And quite honestly, it probably wasn’t significant worse on average - being anything other than a wealthy landowner or the small middle class sucked until the mid-19th century for pretty much everyone. The Oppression Olympics bores me, and I have to agree with the apologists on this one - being blamed for slavery because I’m white when half my mother’s family died on the trip over in steerage from lousy conditions - then some of the survivors of that died in the Civil War fighting for the Union and the part of my father’s mother’s family left behind likely found their end in concentration camps in WWII does not feel quite right - it feels like I’m being painted due to my race - and I don’t like it any more than African Americans do. (You could blame my husband’s family - they were wealthy landowners - except one of them defended the occupants of the Amistad to the Supreme Court) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/20 "2015-11-16T03:05:48Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > I’m not sure who the OP is talking about specifically, but here’s some more slavery apologia I’ve seen: > … > 4. The North was just as racist as the South. > … > 7. The vast majority of Southerners didn’t own slaves. Well, these are true. I’d call the former an essentially true generalization, though of course not applicable to every person. The latter is simple fact. But then, I don’t see either of these as actually _counting_ to excuse slavery at any level. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > The Oppression Olympics bores me, and I have to agree with the apologists on this one - being blamed for slavery because I’m white when half my mother’s family died on the trip over in steerage from lousy conditions - then some of the survivors of that died in the Civil War fighting for the Union and the part of my father’s mother’s family left behind likely found their end in concentration camps in WWII does not feel quite right - it feels like I’m being painted due to my race - and I don’t like it any more than African Americans do. > > (You could blame my husband’s family - they were wealthy landowners - except one of them defended the occupants of the Amistad to the Supreme Court) Your family history is not really relevant, IMO. Slavery is part of your heritage because you are an American, full stop. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606.md?page=2)