# What is the narrative of slavery apologists in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 15, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606 "2015-11-15T00:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/41 "2015-11-18T12:56:30Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Maybe you should feel guilty about it. My family fought for the Union. I’ve been working for Civil Rights since I was nine. Maybe I shouldn’t be taking on guilt merely because of my race. Thats, there is a word for that…oh, yeah, racist. You shouldn’t feel guilt, in my opinion. But you should recognize that you have benefitted in many ways (if you’re white) from the history of white supremacist policies and practices in the US, and non-white people have suffered in many ways due to these policies and practices, some of which continue today. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/42 "2015-11-18T14:57:58Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > That is not helping your case at all. I’m a first generation immigrant and I definitely don’t think of it as part of MY heritage. After wracking my brains for several minutes, I have to admit that I don’t understand the point behind saying this. Slavery might be something you can readily dismiss as part of _your_ heritage, but as an African American, it’s certainly a part of mine. (Doubly so because I hail from the enslaved and the enslavers.) But…so what? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/43 "2015-11-19T05:43:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > That is not helping your case at all. I’m a first generation immigrant and I definitely don’t think of it as part of MY heritage. Maybe not your in particular TODAY since your a first generation immigrant. BUT, what about your children and the families they marry into? Here in the midwest almost anyone who’s family goes back more than 3 generations has some black or indian ancestry in the mix somewhere. Heck I was surprised how many black people here have Cherokee ancestry also. My wife has a little Navaho indian in her so thats part of my kids heritage now. You can see it when most American white people have slightly darker skin than Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/44 "2015-11-19T05:45:38Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > After wracking my brains for several minutes, I have to admit that I don’t understand the point behind saying this. Slavery might be something you can readily dismiss as part of _your_ heritage, but as an African American, it’s certainly a part of mine. (Doubly so because I hail from the enslaved and the enslavers.) > > But…so what? If you dont mind me asking, can you trace your family back to a particular plantation and owner? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/45 "2015-11-19T11:45:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > If you dont mind me asking, can you trace your family back to a particular plantation and owner? On my maternal grandmothers side, I know the name of a slaveowner who had children with one of his slaves-- my great great great (give or take a great) grandmother. His property was divvied up to his children, including his white ones. That’s all I know about him. I don’t know any specifics for my other ancestors. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/46 "2015-11-19T11:58:33Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > To be fair, the reason the Triangle Trade was so popular was because Africans were much better suited to plantation work than the Native Americans (who we’d almost finished mass murdering, anyway). Which obviously doesn’t excuse anything, but it was the basis of Bartolomé de las Casas’s ill-fated theory. Can you clarify that? The way I understand it wasn’t that plantation owners were opposed to Native American slaves, so much as the fact that whenever they tried said slaves were generally captured locally and knew the nearby land/had friends nearby and thus had a tendency to successfully escape. Africans had the benefit of being black (so unlike a White person they couldn’t skip town and blend in with everyone) while also being isolated from an established nearby community with no knowledge of the surrounding terrain. The justifications about black people just naturally being better at farming cotton, as I understand it, didn’t start coming until a quite a bit later when “blacks = slaves” was more firmly entrenched in the cultural consciousness because we’d mostly stopped experimenting with Native Americans and extending white indentured servants’ contracts “just a bit too long.” ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/47 "2015-11-19T12:54:09Z")
The triangle trade also took advantage of the clockwise wind patterns of the Atlantic ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/48 "2015-11-19T14:05:03Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > > [@Octarine](#): > > > > To be fair, the reason the Triangle Trade was so popular was because Africans were much better suited to plantation work than the Native Americans (who we’d almost finished mass murdering, anyway). > > Can you clarify that? The way I understand it wasn’t that plantation owners were opposed to Native American slaves, so much as the fact that whenever they tried said slaves were generally captured locally and knew the nearby land/had friends nearby and thus had a tendency to successfully escape. Africans had the benefit of being black (so unlike a White person they couldn’t skip town and blend in with everyone) while also being isolated from an established nearby community with no knowledge of the surrounding terrain. > > The justifications about black people just naturally being better at farming cotton, as I understand it, didn’t start coming until a quite a bit later when “blacks = slaves” was more firmly entrenched in the cultural consciousness because we’d mostly stopped experimenting with Native Americans and extending white indentured servants’ contracts “just a bit too long.” It applied more to South America than to North. Most African slaves went to South America, to work in sugar plantations. It is correct that owners found that Native Americans died off too easily, from overwork and from imported diseases. Native Americans weren’t enslaved by Europeans very much, by and large, because most of them died from epidemic disease both in South and North America. Estimates of the die-off range from 75-90%. Native American slaves before the Europeans were mostly war captives and things like that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/49 "2015-11-19T14:19:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Most African slaves went to South America, to work in sugar plantations. Do you have a cite for this? I’m curious about the numerical breakdown between slaves going to the US, Caribbean, Mexico/Central America, and South America. I wouldn’t have guessed that a majority went to South America – I would have assumed that US + Caribbean had a majority, even if plenty went to SA. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/50 "2015-11-19T14:24:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? > [@](#): > > Approximately 11,863,000 Africans were shipped across the Atlantic, with a death rate during the Middle Passage reducing this number by 10-20 percent. As a result between 9.6 and 10.8 million Africans arrived in the Americas. > > About 500,000 Africans were imported into what is now the U.S. between 1619 and 1807–or about 6 percent of all Africans forcibly imported into the Americas. About 70 percent arrived directly from Africa. > > Well over 90 percent of African slaves were imported into the Caribbean and South America. Only about 6 percent of imports went directly to British North America. Yet by 1825, the U.S. had a quarter of blacks in the New World. [Source](https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery) Brazil imported the most slaves, around 5 million in total. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/51 "2015-11-19T14:35:24Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > [Source](https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery) > Brazil imported the most slaves, around 5 million in total. Thanks for the link. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/52 "2015-11-20T16:54:54Z")
It seems like the _sanitizing_ part started with the bible translators themselves. The older manuscripts of Hebrew and Greek had the words meaning slave much more so than today’s translations into English. Even the KJV only uses slave and slaves twice in the entire bible. It prefers euphemisms like hired hand, maid, man servant, bondmaid, and others, and does so hundreds of times. I’m in a very rural area of TX. And all I can say, is, the few times I’ve heard it in conversation, it just isn’t a big deal to them. Slaves were supposedly treated quite well, and I’ve heard them say they technically really weren’t slaves the way we think of them as. The longer they go on about it, and with no one questioning them, don’t be surprised if you learn they even had a pension back then. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/53 "2015-11-20T18:15:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You shouldn’t feel guilt, in my opinion. But you should recognize that you have benefitted in many ways (if you’re white) from the history of white supremacist policies and practices in the US, … First I’ve heard this sentiment put like that. Policies? Seems to me that you really have to torture some logic to state that as absolute truth. That Saturday Night Live skit comes to mind, where the black cast member goes “whiteface”, and is just given (for free) anything he wants by whites… And on slavery/racism: What if the Africans had just freely immigrated here, not brought as slaves. Still the same racism and benefit/detriment split? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/54 "2015-11-21T03:40:43Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > First I’ve heard this sentiment put like that. Policies? Yes dude. Policies. [Big ones.](http://www.understandingrace.org/history/society/post_war_economic_boom.html) Not trying to be snarky, but are you seriously saying this is news to you? > [@](#): > > And on slavery/racism: What if the Africans had just freely immigrated here, not brought as slaves. Still the same racism and benefit/detriment split? I don’t know where to start with this. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/55 "2015-11-21T12:14:18Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yes dude. Policies. [Big ones.](http://www.understandingrace.org/history/society/post_war_economic_boom.html) Not trying to be snarky, but are you seriously saying this is news to you? > I don’t know where to start with this. News to me that discriminatory practices of the past are now called “white supremacist policies”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/56 "2015-11-21T13:46:27Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > News to me that discriminatory practices of the past are now called “white supremacist policies”. I think it’s a pretty reasonable characterization. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/57 "2015-11-21T13:56:52Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > News to me that discriminatory practices of the past are now called “white supremacist policies”. Still trying to figure out what makes you balk at that characterization. The cite I linked to mentioned the GI Bill and redlining policies of 1940s and '50s, but let me keep going in case your incredulousness encompasses more than that. Do you dispute that Jim Crow was a policy that kept blacks out of well-funded schools and public universities for decades–let alone out of decent hospitals, restaurants, hotels, etc–and that Jim Crow was founded on white supremacy? Do you dispute that many local voting laws were policies designed to keep blacks from voting for their self-interests, in the service of white supremacy? And please help me understand why you apparently find it strange to see laws that permitted slavery to be practiced for centuries “white supremacist policies”? Because it’s mind-boggling to see someone dismiss that of all things. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/58 "2015-11-21T16:10:21Z")
Where does it all end? I have benefitted from the accomplishments of the Roman Empire, which had an enormous slave population. Can I stop feeling guilty or angry (depends on the ancestor) yet? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/59 "2015-11-21T16:50:48Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Can I stop feeling guilty or angry (depends on the ancestor) yet? I dunno, can you? Only you have control over your emotions, and no one here is demanding that you feel guilty or angry. What I’m wondering is 1) why appeals like this seem to pop up whenever the “s” word is mentioned and 2) why would any self-respecting, self-aware person say something like this in a thread asking about _slave apologists_. Like, what better way to show the motivations of slave apologists than to advertise your own irrational emotional reactions to the subject of slavery? Are you taking notes, OP? Feelings of guilt ultimately are what drive the narratives that seek to excuse or downplay the harm of American slavery. These aren’t positions based on rational analysis of historical fact. They come from emotional responses, knee-jerk in nature. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606/60 "2015-11-21T20:56:22Z")
I don’t feel much guilt or anger, nor do I feel I should. I should think that by now you would know that my post was largely sarcastic. My actual position is that slavery in the US is a historical fact, and the repercussions are still felt today. To a great extent it has never entirely ended, and the political dialog today shows it gaining strength. This is what angers me, but what can you expect from idiots? On the other hand, slavery has been a large part of the human condition for millennia. Most civilizations were built on the backs of slaves or near slaves. Therefore, we have all benefitted from slavery. Just some historical perspective. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-narrative-of-slavery-apologists-in-the-us/737606.md?page=4)