# What is the naval rank held by Prince Charles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995 "2012-06-04T03:26:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/41 "2012-06-18T02:03:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I just wanted to point out that in doing some cursory Googling on this issue I found out that the official title of the most senior actual professional officer (e.g. non-honorary title, like the Queen) in the Royal Navy is “First Sea Lord.” > > That is a goddamned awesome job title. And until the British military re-org in the 1960s, the Cabinet member who chaired the meetings of the Board of Admiralty was the “First Lord”. Winston Churchill held the post twice: from 1911 to 1914, and from 1939 to 1940. The legend is that when he was re-appointed in 1939, the message that went out to admirals and senior captains in the Royal Naval was simply: “Winston is back.” ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/42 "2012-06-18T02:10:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I just wanted to point out that in doing some cursory Googling on this issue I found out that the official title of the most senior actual professional officer (e.g. non-honorary title, like the Queen) in the Royal Navy is “First Sea Lord.” > > That is a goddamned awesome job title. It is > [@](#): > > On top of that, for a time in the early 2000s the job was held by some guy who also had an unconnected heriditary title, and so for some years the Royal Navy was commanded by a man who was officially styled, as God is my witness, “Admiral The Lord West of Spithead, First Sea Lord.” Would you mess with a guy called that? The Argentines tried - they sank his ship in 1982 - but look how that turned out for them. Alan West just accumulated those ranks and titles over his career, there’s nothing hereditary there. I’m always amused that the current head of the English Judiciary is The Lord Chief Justice, Lord Judge. He was born Igor Judge. It’s a great example of nominative determinism. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/43 "2012-06-18T02:14:37Z")
Only if you actually believe that his name was determinative. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/44 "2012-06-18T02:31:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Only if you actually believe that his name was determinative. OK. _quickly googles_ Perhaps aptronymic? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/45 "2012-06-18T03:24:00Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Maybe a specially tailored RAF oder Navy uniform for a woman to be worn by the Queen would look somewhat bizarre. There being female RN/RAF personnel why would it look bizarre. And as someone else mentioned, at least they don’t have to deal with regimental peculiarities. FWIW _Canada_ has had for a while a specific Commander In Chief’s uniform for each ot the three “environments”/services, that is used by the Governor General, and former GG Michaelle Jean would wear it at appropriate ocassions.( [Navy](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/610xejj.jpg/sr=1)(before they went back to RN-style sleeve braid) ; [Air](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/5196014229_fb4ecb8034.jpg); [Army dress](http://ambassadors.net/archives/images/canadian_gg_prince_charles.jpg)(notice Chuck’s Canadian-equivalent LTG, 3 leaves + the cypher); [Army CADPAT](http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/6254/jeanafghanistan.jpg) ). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/46 "2012-06-18T07:14:51Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > (notice Chuck’s Canadian-equivalent LTG, 3 leaves + the cypher); Is that really a cypher? it’s described on the [wiki page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_ranks_and_insignia#Flag_officer_.2F_General_officer_rank_insignia) as a crossed sabre and baton, with the St. Edward’s crown, but no initials for the current monarch, which I thought was required for a [cypher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_cypher)? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/47 "2012-06-18T07:42:14Z")
It’s definitely a cypher on his uniform, but I don’t think it’s a part of a lieutenant general’s rank insignia. It seems to be [because he’s a personal ADC to the Queen](http://www.scribd.com/doc/38148605/Canadian-Forces-Dress-Instructions-Instructions-Sur-La-Tenue-Des-Forces-Canadiennes) (page 137): > [@](#): > > 1. Cyphers and badges may be worn by those officers holding personal appointments to the following principals. The cyphers and badges shall not be worn by CF members after they cease to hold the personal appointments. > > 2. Her Majesty The Queen. The shoulder device is a Royal Cypher surmounted by the Crown, both of gilt metal. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/48 "2012-06-18T12:36:40Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > It’s definitely a cypher on his uniform, but I don’t think it’s a part of a lieutenant general’s rank insignia. It seems to be [because he’s a personal ADC to the Queen](http://www.scribd.com/doc/38148605/Canadian-Forces-Dress-Instructions-Instructions-Sur-La-Tenue-Des-Forces-Canadiennes) (page 137): Exactly. He wears LTG leaves \*plus \*the cypher. In a bad-resolution photograph it could get confused with a full General insignia. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/49 "2012-06-18T12:58:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I just wanted to point out that in doing some cursory Googling on this issue I found out that the official title of the most senior actual professional officer (e.g. non-honorary title, like the Queen) in the Royal Navy is “First Sea Lord.” > > That is a goddamned awesome job title. When I get elected as the King of England, I’m going to be the Lord High Commander of the Dragon Cavalry. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/50 "2012-06-18T13:05:01Z")
They could style the chief information officer of the United Kingdom: _Lord of the Bytes_ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995/51 "2012-06-18T13:20:09Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Exactly. He wears LTG leaves \*plus \*the cypher. In a bad-resolution photograph it could get confused with a full General insignia. I see now what you mean - thanks! the cypher is below the 3 leaves, correct? I was looking at the baton/sabre/crown at the top of the 3 leaves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-naval-rank-held-by-prince-charles/623995.md?page=2)