# What is the next move for the terrorists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428 "2005-06-29T21:15:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/41 "2005-06-30T14:40:31Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > You can do better than this. No doubt. But I don’t particularly enjoy playing [whack-a-mole](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6271538&postcount=66) with you. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/42 "2005-06-30T14:43:58Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > No doubt. But I don’t particularly enjoy playing [whack-a-mole](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6271538&postcount=66) with you. > > Cheers. Then why participate at all? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/43 "2005-06-30T14:48:22Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Then why participate at all? The Straight Dope – Fighting Ignorance Since 1973. Just doing my share. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/44 "2005-06-30T14:49:18Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > And confronting the Soviet Union was simply madness. The only ones that confronted the Soviets were the Nazis and the Afghans. One loss, one win. Unless you implied the revisionist pap that Reagan caused the collapse of the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/45 "2005-06-30T14:49:31Z")
[QUOTE=Evil One] Find that an unfamiliar concept, do you? It’s just not applicable to Iraq, which is a nation comprised of several peoples. That seems to be an unfamiliar concept to you. > [@](#): > > Lots of people thought the Marshall Plan was a mistake. And confronting the Soviet Union was simply madness. The long term effects of the events of today will not be able to be judged for years, if not decades. One of us will be wrong. Is that supposed to be an argument of sorts? Hey, some plans worked so all our plans must work?? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/46 "2005-06-30T14:54:25Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > ‘stand up as a people’… really > That’s just a hollow phrase. [If we don’t stand up together, we’ll surely stand up separately](http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2005%20News%20Archives/June/29%20n/Iraq%20MPs%20Murder%20Sparks%20Tension.htm): > [@](#): > > Furious Shi’i deputies suggested that the time had come to counter relentless attacks that have targeted their community. > > Khodr Al-Khozai of the Shi’i-dominated United Iraqi Alliance (UIA) appealed to the three biggest Sunni organizations in Iraq: “We call on the Committee of Muslim Scholars, the Waqf (state-run endowment group) and Iraqi Islamic Party to take a clear stand regarding murders and attacks on Shi’is. > > “We are on the edge of a precipice that could swallow us all. The ministries of interior and defense have proved incapable of defending us and in this case the people have the right to self-defense,” Khozai said. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/47 "2005-06-30T14:54:56Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > …One of us will be wrong. Most likely, the one who already is wrong and stubbornly refuses to accept otherwise. In this instance, you. You post bald statements of “fact” without so much as a hint of substatiation, bold flights of rhetorical fancy. Let’s take just one: Saddam “harbored” terrorists. How is it that you are privy to solid information that has escaped Congressional committees, seasoned reporters, and the like? How could they have failed so miserably to see what is so entirely clear to someone like yourself, who has the facts at this fingertips. You do, right? Have the facts at your fingertips, that is. Would you be so kind as to share the sources of your infallible expertise? So that we may all gasp in admiration? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/48 "2005-06-30T14:59:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Is there such an entity as “the terrorists”, some discrete grouping that is A but not B? That starts getting pretty murky. Presumably, the Chechnyan _jihadists_ count? Or no? What about the Baathist dead-enders, presumably bent on returning Saddam to power? Are they in some way identical, even though their goals and inspirations are entirely secular? Or does such a group even exist? > > It has suited the political goals of some groups to pretend that a group, “the terrorists”, exists and that struggling against them is the “war on terror”. I’m not having any. If patriotism is the last refuge of the soundrel, semantics is the first. :rolleyes: Anyone who claims not to know who we’re fighting or why we’re fighting them is either an utter fool or a contemptible liar, or both. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/49 "2005-06-30T15:09:47Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Silliness. > > Clearly, your formulation is designed to be able to impugn the motives and behavior of opponents of the War in Iraq and the Bush administration. Unfortunately, the motives and behavior of many the war’s opponents and Bush’s critics is not ony highly questionable but profoundly contemptible. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/50 "2005-06-30T15:12:53Z")
Is this thread really a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/51 "2005-06-30T15:23:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You post bald statements of “fact” without so much as a hint of substatiation, bold flights of rhetorical fancy. Perhaps I just wanted to join the crowd, Luci. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/52 "2005-06-30T15:31:38Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Anyone who claims not to know who we’re fighting or why we’re fighting them is either an utter fool or a contemptible liar, or both. Agreed – someone needs to read your post to Dear Misleader. For, according to him, up until recently, the people you were fighting in Iraq fit into one of these categories: 1-Foreign Terrorists 2-Regime Remnants – B’aath “dead-enders” 3-Criminal Elements However, as the latest spin tell us, there’s now a new category of “insurgents” that have been deemed worthy enough to negociate with. Not exactly news to those of us living in the fact-based community. Namely that there are any number of Iraqis that are willing to put up a legitimate and effective resistance to an invading/occupying force. So much so that both your civilian and military leaders have begun to publicy recognize that they cannot be defeated militarily. I know, hard to imagine, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/53 "2005-06-30T15:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyone who claims not to know who we’re fighting or why we’re fighting them is either an utter fool or a contemptible liar, or both. Speaking of semantics, that’s pretty close to an _ad hominem_ there, bud. You might want to dial your obvious anger at all those treasonous libruhls down a notch. Indulge 'em, why doncha. Since it’s so simple to do so, please explain precisely who we’re fighting right at this minute, and why we’re fighting them. I’ll listen. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/54 "2005-06-30T15:53:52Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > please explain precisely who we’re fighting right at this minute, and why we’re fighting them. Who: them that’s got oil. Why: to get their oil. Just thought I’d cut through the flummery and get to the root of the matter. 🙂 Though why this ‘war on terror’ should be of any real concern to terrorists (particularly those who aren’t anywhere near any oil) is another question. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/55 "2005-06-30T15:55:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The only ones that confronted the Soviets were the Nazis and the Afghans. One loss, one win. Unless you implied the revisionist pap that Reagan caused the collapse of the USSR. The Afghans opposed the Soviets kind of how the Viet Cong opposed the US - with a lot of help. I know it’s obscure, but there was this thing called the Cold War that went on for a few years. Cuban Missle Crisis? Berlin Wall? Any of that ring a bell? Or are you just referring to open military conflict as a confrontation? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/56 "2005-06-30T16:03:51Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Who: them that’s got oil. > > Why: to get their oil. To be fair, it’s not the Americans fault the Iraqis took their oil and buried in their country. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/57 "2005-06-30T16:08:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The Afghans opposed the Soviets kind of how the Viet Cong opposed the US - with a lot of help. > > I know it’s obscure, but there was this thing called the Cold War that went on for a few years. Cuban Missle Crisis? Berlin Wall? Any of that ring a bell? Or are you just referring to open military conflict as a confrontation? Just referring to actual conflict. To my knowledge, nary a shot was fired in the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/58 "2005-06-30T16:11:23Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Agreed – someone needs to read your post to Dear Misleader. For, according to him, up until recently, the people you were fighting in Iraq fit into one of these categories: > > 1-Foreign Terrorists > 2-Regime Remnants – B’aath “dead-enders” > 3-Criminal Elements > > However, as the latest spin tell us, there’s now a new category of “insurgents” that have been deemed worthy enough to negociate with. > > Not exactly news to those of us living in the fact-based community. Namely that there are any number of Iraqis that are willing to put up a legitimate and effective resistance to an invading/occupying force. > > So much so that both your civilian and military leaders have begun to publicy recognize that they cannot be defeated militarily. > > I know, hard to imagine, ain’t it? Do come down out of your ivory tower and join that fact based community you’re so keen on. The insurgents can’t win militarily, and they know that. What they’re counting on are Quislings and eunuchs, such as many of the posters on this thread, to win the war for them by undermining support for it. The vast majority of Iraqis, even among the Sunnis, do not support the insurgency and don’t want to see it win. Apparently you do. Bush is entirely right when he says our enemies are simple criminals, Baathist diehards and violent religious fanatics. No doubt we are trying to negotiate with some elements of the insurgency. That is simply practical politics. Divide and conquer is a sound strategy. Are you aware, by the way, that U.S. Marines have witnessed different elements of the insurgency fighting among themselves? That doesn’t sound like a united movement confident of its ultimate victory. Many of the war’s opponents simply don’t have the stomach for confronting and opposing Islamic fascism, and many others are simply the sort of bigots who would not support the United States if we were at war with a horde of flesh-eating zombies. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/59 "2005-06-30T16:16:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Just referring to actual conflict. To my knowledge, nary a shot was fired in the Cold War. East German guards just threw sticks at people trying to cross the Berlin Wall? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428/60 "2005-06-30T16:18:08Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Since it’s so simple to do so, please explain precisely who we’re fighting right at this minute, and why we’re fighting them. I’ll listen. Nah. It’s like explaining to a creationist that evolution really did happen, or trying to convince a Holocaust denier that it’s simply absurd to insist the Holocaust was hoax. There’s no point in trying to teach a pig to sing, and there’s no point in trying to explain why the insurgents must not be allowed to win to the average leftie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-next-move-for-the-terrorists/310428.md?page=4)