# What is the Oldest Santa Claus Myth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 15, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822 "2005-12-15T22:48:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822/1 "2005-12-15T22:48:18Z")
What is the oldest Santa Claus myth and where did it originate from? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822/2 "2005-12-15T23:00:42Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > What is the oldest Santa Claus myth and where did it originate from? The oldest one I’ve heard is of St. Nicholas, the Bishop of Smyrna (modern-day Turkey). There were daughters from a poor family that wanted to get married, but did not have a dowry. According to the legend, the bishop hid gold coins in their home so they could have them as a dowry. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822/3 "2005-12-16T02:33:32Z")
You might find the book [Santa Claus: Last of the Wild Men](http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/118_santan.shtml) an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![antich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7c8e57/32.png) [@antich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antich)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822/4 "2005-12-16T03:17:06Z")
The one that says that Santa isn’t real. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822/5 "2005-12-16T03:38:03Z")
I highly recommend [The Battle for Christmas](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679740384/qid=1134703934/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-6983187-2146554?s=books&v=glance&n=283155), by Steven Nissenbaum. He traces the origins of Christmas traditions, including gift-giving, caroling, Christmas trees and Santa Claus. The straight dope on Santa is that any version of “Santa Claus” that we would recognize comes from the early 1800’s. The idea of Christmas as a holiday for gift-giving among family and friends was invented at roughly the same time. Santa Claus, to some extent, helped bridge the gap between the idea of pure Christian spirit and the materialist idea of wanting gifts (he was a Saint, after all). However, the character of Santa Claus was pulled together from a variety of different sources, including the “Bellsnickles”, a tradition imported from Holland and Germany. Oddly enough, early “Bellsnickles” were often thought of as troublemakers. There were cases of them getting drunk and rowdy and occassionally even breaking into homes on Christmas Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822/6 "2005-12-16T06:17:07Z")
The earliest record of the good deeds of St. Nicholas is a [6th century Greek text](http://russian-crafts.com/customs/st-nicholas.html) (Nicholas lived two centuries earlier). [Fragments](http://www.paintedchurch.org/lthor7ds.htm) of images of St. Nicholas from a 13th century church. That’s not St. Nick in the center; that’s a later image painted on top the earlier ones. The St. Nick pictures are at bottom left and bottom right. The Santa Claus figure derives from the [Dutch portrayal](http://www.thehollandring.com/sinterklaas.shtml) of St. Nicholas (Sinter Klaas or Sinter Klaus). He wears the traditional red robes of a bishop. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-santa-claus-myth/335822/7 "2005-12-16T07:16:12Z")
St. Nicholas: [The Santa Claus Connection](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7175/stnich-sc.html)