# What is the oldest still extant company? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2002, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002 "2002-11-16T07:17:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![imperative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e56c9b/32.png) [@imperative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imperative)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/1 "2002-11-16T07:17:15Z")
What’s the company that was established the earliest and is still around today? ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/2 "2002-11-16T07:48:18Z")
There are probably older ones, but here’s a start: > [@](#): > > Hudson’s Bay Company, established in 1670, is Canada’s largest department store retailer and oldest corporation. (From [here](http://www.hbc.com/hbc/aboutus/aboutus.asp?section=aboutus)) ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/3 "2002-11-16T07:56:51Z")
I don’t know if it is the earliest company in the world, but The Hudson Bay Company, established in 1670 is still around. At 332 years, it appears to be a likely candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Ell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Ell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ell)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/4 "2002-11-16T07:59:31Z")
Well many companies claim to be the oldest. Here are some: - **Sumitomo Corporation**. Started over 400 years ago by Masatomo Sumitomo (1585-1652). - **Stora Kopparberg**. An old document about a copper mine, dating from 1288, shows that it was then owned by the company. Nowadays, known simply as “Stora,” it is the world’s oldest company of shareholders. In the 17th century it was the largest copper-producer in the world, but nowadays the company’s interests lie mainly in the ownership of forests and the production of timber. - **The Royal Mint (Llantrisant)**, according to the Guiness Book of Records, is the world’s oldest company. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/5 "2002-11-16T09:20:02Z")
Doesn’t the bottle of Kikkoman soy sauce say “Since 1635” or something close to that? ---
**Author:** ![Ell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Ell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ell)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/6 "2002-11-16T10:42:42Z")
From the [Kikkoman website](http://www.kikkoman.com/contents/company.html): Noda has been well-known for its soy sauce production since the Edo period (1603-1867). In December 1917, eight family companies merged to form the predecessor of Kikkoman Corporation, Noda Shoyu Co., Ltd., with capital of 7 million yen. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/7 "2002-11-16T12:06:25Z")
I remember reading something about this some years ago. IIRC the world’s oldest company goes right the way back to the 14thC, I think it is a Swedish or at least a Norse logging company that has gone into other ares of commerce… …web searching… Ah, found something, the company is called Stora Kopparbergs, I cannot find a cite on the date of sartup and unfortunately I don’t speak whatever language all these websites keep coming up with. …more searches… Ah, just a minute, it seems that the company name is just Stora, the rest got tacked on after a merger in the 1950’s. > [@](#): > > From Copper Mining to Forestry > STORA’s history has shaped its current business philosophies, and accounts in large measure for its importance to Sweden. STORA claims to be the world’s oldest company. This modern forest products company has its historic roots in copper mining at the Copper Mountain in the town of Falun. A Deed of Exchange belonging to Bishop Peter of Västerås is the oldest existing document dealing with the mine at the Copper Mountain. It is dated June of 1288. The mine and the wealth it generated has played a significant role in the development of the Swedish economy: That wealth helped Sweden ascend to world leadership during the 1600s. Although mining ceased at Falun in 1992, significant volumes of Falun Red paint are still produced from the Copper Mountain. This paint, which has been produced for generations, is a tradition in Sweden. Many buildings throughout Scandinavia are still painted with the distinctive red color. > > Early mining methods required huge volumes of wood, which was used not only to smelt ore, but also for support timbers in the mine and the extraction process. Large fires, built against the rock walls in the mine, heated the rock. After the rock cooled, it became brittle and easier to work with. Because of the extensive use of wood, the mine controlled large tracts of forest land, which eventually led STORA to a transition into the forest products industry. > Source: Sven Rydberg, The Great Copper Mountain, 1988, Värnamo, Sweden and Tommy Forss and Kurt Netzler, Chronicles, The Annals of STORA. from this site [http://sfp.cas.psu.edu/stora.htm](http://sfp.cas.psu.edu/stora.htm) However this may well be just an od company rather than “the oldest” UK law states that activities dating back to “time immemorial” are defined as being continuous activity and starting prior to the year 1140, there are definately market charters that go back this far, and further. Some of the market charters would have been granted to town and city chambers of commerce and I’d have thought that there must be some that were set up as companies, or guilds societies. The claim by the Welsh Royal Mint goes back to coinage that might exist,possibly 1500 years there is some doubt about it, there is a claim about a coin belonging to Llewelyn ab Iorwerthbut(date around 1197) but this coin is only recorded in letters and its existance is debateable in any case coin minting has been going on around the ancient world for thousands of years, perhaps not continuously by one mint and in any case I would have to wonder if a mint would count as a company because such an institution would be an arm of the rulers rather than a trading company as we would define it today. Certainly the Royal Mint itself is very old > [@](#): > > The Royal Mint > > The Royal Mint has produced coinage for over 1,100 years, making it one of the oldest manufacturing institutions in the United Kingdom. In 1968, it moved from its original site near the Tower of London to larger premises at Llantristant in South Wales in order to accommodate the introduction of decimalisation and an increasing export business. [http://www.ssi-world.com/news/necodet.asp?it=RoyalMint](http://www.ssi-world.com/news/necodet.asp?it=RoyalMint) Note that that site states it is one of the UK’s oldest manufacturing industries, so there might well be some company of greater age in the UK, and across the world who can say? In my mind though state manufacturing is not necessarily the same as a company, and there is no specific dating information, rather there is evidence of this acitivity taking place through contemporary sources and possibly archeological evidence. ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/8 "2002-11-16T16:09:20Z")
Many of the French wine makers have been in business and in the same family for many centuries. Same thing applies to other makers of spirits around Europe. ---
**Author:** ![koawala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@koawala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koawala)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/9 "2002-11-16T17:56:54Z")
I have heard that the gun maker Baretta has been around for about 500 years. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/10 "2002-11-16T18:19:56Z")
I remember having read an article about an international association of the oldest _family bussinesses_ (owned by the same family since the beginning as opposed to companies whose owners had changed over the centuries). Unfortunately I can’t remember the name of this association. I only nremember that the oldest one was a japanese restaurant, or somesuch (a tavern situated along some trade road, perhaps), dating back to something like the XV° century, and that amongst the other members there were an italian weapon maker (don’t remember if their business still included manufacturing weapon, though) dating back to the renaissance, and indeed a french wine (or spirits?) producer. I suppose that some clever search in google could turn up the name of this association. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/11 "2002-11-16T18:34:32Z")
I made a quick search on google, and though I didn’t find the association I was refering to, [here’s a page](http://www.familybusinessmagazine.com/oldworld.html) listing the oldest continuously family-owned businesses. The oldest would be , according to this site : 1. “Kongo Gumi”, Japan,building and restoring temples, founded in 578. 2. Hoshi family, Japan, owner of a spa and hotel, founded in 718 3)Goulaine family, France, a winery fouded around 1000 4)Ricasoli family, Italy, wine and oil producer, founded in 1141 1. Barovier and Toso, Italy, glass makers, founded in 1295 2. Pilgrimhaus inn, Germany, founded in 1304 3. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/12 "2002-11-16T18:40:14Z")
I made a quick search on google, and though I didn’t find the association I was refering to, [here’s a page](http://www.familybusinessmagazine.com/oldworld.html) listing the oldest continuously family-owned businesses. The oldest would be , according to this site : 1. “Kongo Gumi”, Japan, building and restoring temples, founded in 578. 2. Hoshi family, Japan, owner of a spa and hotel, founded in 718 3)Goulaine family, France, a winery fouded around 1000 4)Ricasoli family, Italy, wine and oil producer, founded in 1141 1. Barovier and Toso, Italy, glass makers, founded in 1295 2. Pilgrimhaus inn, Germany, founded in 1304 7)Richard de Bas, France, paper makers, founded in 1326 1. Torrini Firenze, Italy, goldsmiths, founded in 1369 9)Antinori family, Italy, winery, founded in 1385 1. Camuffo, Italy, shipbuilders, founded in 1438 By the way, the weapon makers I was refered to above is the famous Beretta company, founded in 1526 and listed as the 13th oldest family business in the page I linked to… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/13 "2002-11-16T19:01:58Z")
By the way, on another page, the same site lists the oldest family businesses in the US (I assume that would interest the posters too). The oldest would be the Zildjian Cymbal Co (cymbal makers, obviously) founded in 1623, but outside the US, and installed in the US only in 1929. The second oldest, founded in the US this time, would be the Shirley plantation (1638). ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/14 "2002-11-16T19:41:34Z")
There is a (cheap) restaurant in downtown Beijing that has been refered to in letters & documents at least back to the Ming Dynasty. Apparently, it has always been a student favorite. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/15 "2002-11-16T22:24:58Z")
I know that Lloyd’s of London (insurance) has been around for a long time - 17th century? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/16 "2002-11-16T23:54:33Z")
Lloyds began as a coffee house in 1687; the patrons frequently dealt with financial matters over their drinks and so it all started… ---
**Author:** ![Doctordec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Doctordec](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctordec)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/17 "2002-11-17T05:54:39Z")
The bottle of Lowenbrau in my hand at this moment reads “Since 1383”. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/18 "2002-11-17T11:11:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*There is a (cheap) restaurant in downtown Beijing that has been refered to in letters & documents at least back to the Ming Dynasty. Apparently, it has always been a student favorite. \*\* Don’t know if this is the one you were thinking of, **Bosda** , but according _ **Ancient Inventions** _ by Peter James and Nick Thorpe, the longest-running restaurant in the world is Ma Yu Ching’s Bucket Chicken House in Kaifeng, which first opened its doors in 1153. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/19 "2002-11-17T12:52:33Z")
By no means the oldest or anywhere near, but surprisingly old considering it’s a well known computer game and console company is Nintendo. It’s over 100 years old. And it’s trademark character Mario is just as old. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002/20 "2002-11-17T13:36:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*(snip) the oldest continuously family-owned businesses. > The oldest would be , according to this site : > > 1. “Kongo Gumi”, Japan, building and restoring temples, founded in 578. > > \*\* I checked out the company’s site, www.kongogumi.co.jp which is unfortunately all in Japanese. The family’s history seems very well documented, as it is intimately tied with the history of Japan itself. However, it begs the question of what is meant by “founded”. In 578, three master carpenters were invited from Korea to build Japan’s first temples. From then on, there is a continuous lineage of people in the business of building/restoring temples but when does it become a “company”? Kongo Gumi didn’t officially become a company (_kabushikigaisha_) until 1955. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-extant-company/137002.md?page=2)