# What is the oldest (still working) piece of machinery **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351 "2004-04-27T21:20:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/1 "2004-04-27T21:20:42Z")
Just curious, what the oldest man made piece of machinary still in use today would be? I’m looking for specific examples (ie the clock works in Big Ben, etc). I’m curious to know if something built toda would last as long. MtM ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/2 "2004-04-27T22:09:02Z")
The clock works in Big Ben is a comparative youngster ( mid 19th century ) there are much older clocks around . From memory there is one in Wells Cathedral that dates from the 14th century. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/3 "2004-04-27T22:14:27Z")
I don’t know specifics, but I imagine either some wind or water mill. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/4 "2004-04-27T22:29:38Z")
If you take the strict definition of ‘machine’ (the one that includes ‘inclined plane’), then the oldest machine is going to be some stone ramp somewhere. Or, if all the talk about them being astronomical calendars, monuments such as Stonehenge might fit the bill. Were you specifically looking for something with integral moving parts? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/5 "2004-04-27T22:40:10Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I don’t know specifics, but I imagine either some wind or water mill. I’ll have to look it up but I imagine some[Archimedes Screws](http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/science+society/lectures/illustrations/lecture10/text4.html) in Egypt and the Middle East go back pretty far. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/6 "2004-04-27T22:50:32Z")
[This lightbulb has been burning for 100 years, it seems.](http://www.centennialbulb.org/) That might make it one of the oldest _electrical_ machines, at least. Do Aquaducts count as “machines”? Some Roman ones are still in use, today. [Here’s a railcar that was apparently in use for 80 years.](http://www.spcrr.org/Our_collection.htm) When the last B-52 bombers are retired in the 2040s, some of the airframes will be over 75 years old. And the design will be nearly 100. ---
**Author:** ![Firx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Firx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firx)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/7 "2004-04-27T22:51:00Z")
The question is a bit complicated by the various definitions of ‘machine’. Here are a few examples from the OED online: I. A structure regarded as functioning as an independent body, without mechanical involvement. II. A material structure designed for a specific purpose, and related uses. 3. A military engine or siege-tower. III. A mechanical or other structure used for transportation or conveyance. IV. An apparatus constructed to perform a task or for some other purpose; also in derived senses. 6. a. In general use: an apparatus, device, instrument, or implement b. A complex device, consisting of a number of interrelated parts, each having a definite function, together applying, using, or generating mechanical or (later) electrical power to perform a certain kind of work (often specified by a preceding verbal noun). 7. Mech. Anything that transmits force or directs its application. And so on. There are any number of examples of the first definition. The second definition has a number of examples - such as greek torsion catapults and the lated roman variants, though none that are still functioning, so far as I know. (Incidentally, the advent and development of siege engines is an interesting topic, and I’d recommend looking into it if you’re interested in ancient machines.) Similarly, there are lots of machines conforming to definition three, but again, none that still work. Viking boats leap immediately to mind, for example. Definition four is closer to what I think you were getting at, but even there we have considerable variation. For 6a, Egyptian polished bronze mirrors still work as well as they ever did, as do obsidian spearheads. For 6b, John Harrison’s surviving clocks (the earliest from 1713) still keep time. Or how about an astrolabe? For my money, though, I’d go with any kind stone cutting edge; but if you want to omit the stone age, I’d go with a bronze knife or chisel. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/8 "2004-04-27T23:14:33Z")
Let’s not forget the UFOs that seeded the earth with human life. While their serviceable life in linear years is fairly short (47.6 years on average) their time travel feature can put them easily within a few minutes of The Big Bang making them not only the oldest machines, but among the oldest \*objects \* in the universe. And as they are manufactured by (or rather _for_) a sub-species of homo sapiens they can be considered “man-made.” Where did I put that mustard… ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/9 "2004-04-27T23:27:35Z")
Yeah, it’s gonna be hard to define. Some other suggestions for devices with articulated parts that are likely to have survived in working form might include: Clothing and particularly armour. Any riveted piece on clothing or armour is a functional fulcrum and thus a machine and I’m fairly sure we’ve got such pieces of Roman armour at least. Even buttons and bootlaces are quite properly described as machines and we have functional examples going back to the bronze age. Doors are articulated machines and I’m sure there are some ancient buildings with functioning doors. Lids. Given the propensity of ancient cultures to bury pottery I’m sure there must be some old examples of jars with lids still in place. Wheels. There are wheeled models and even full sized chariots found in functioning order in tombs all over the place. Spear throwers. I’m not sure what the oldest functioning example of a spear thrower is but it seems like they wouldn’t be prone to stopping working until they rot. Given those examples I’m fairly confident the earliest working machine will be in thousands of years old rather than hundreds. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/10 "2004-04-27T23:42:02Z")
How about a spear? Some are thousands of years old and could still kill someone today. If you’re will to stretch the definition that far, stone cutting tools aren’t going much further. You could probably find some stone tools in Olduvai Gorge that were shaped a million or two years back and still work. How about a sundial? Two moving parts, the earth and the sun, making it the most efficient machine ever devised by man. ---
**Author:** ![the.hyacinth.girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the.hyacinth.girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the.hyacinth.girl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/11 "2004-04-28T00:02:12Z")
Going along with the clock theme, what about Stonehenge? Not sure if that meets your definition of “machinery,” but it \*does \* have some practical uses… Besides that, there’s also the Astronomical Clock (Staromestska Radnice) in Prague which has been around for over six centuries: [http://user.intop.net/~jhollis/clock.htm](http://user.intop.net/~jhollis/clock.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/12 "2004-04-28T00:21:54Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Let’s not forget the UFOs that seeded the earth with human life. While their serviceable life in linear years is fairly short (47.6 years on average) their time travel feature can put them easily within a few minutes of The Big Bang making them not only the oldest machines, but among the oldest \*objects \* in the universe. And as they are manufactured by (or rather _for_) a sub-species of homo sapiens they can be considered “man-made.” > > Where did I put that mustard… My son, and I mean this in a gentle & friendly way, it isn’t about where _you put_ the mustard. It’s about where _we’re_ gonna put that mustard, to repay you for the balance of your thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/13 "2004-04-28T00:42:19Z")
Oh come on guys. Let’s not be so po-faced. Yes, we can include ramps, spears… Heck, a million year-old _rock_ could kill somebody today if you lobbed it at their noggin. How about "what’s the oldest machine in the _fun_ everyday sense of it, that a little boy would think of when you said the word “machine”. It’s gotta have gears or pulleys and such. What’s the oldest one of _those_? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/14 "2004-04-28T00:45:54Z")
I quickly googled for old clocks and found: -The oldest astronomical clock in Lyons, France (1393) -The oldest clock in Comayagua, Honduras (made by the moors, donated by the king of Spain, 800 years old) I stopped there, first because I suspected that I would find _a lot_ of “oldest clock in the world” (a quick glance shows there are at least two of them in France alone), but more importantly because I found a reference to something which has a chance of be the oldest clock which _could_ still be used. A 3500 y.o. [clepsydrae](http://www.nmsi.ac.uk/piclib/imagerecord.asp?id=10326213) kept in the Cairo museum. But I suspect it isn’t what you’d call a “machine”. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/15 "2004-04-28T00:55:00Z")
Besides, I think the jury is waaaaay out still on whether Stonehenge had any actual astronomical or time-telling purpose. IIRC the opinions of most non-Fortean experts is “impossible to tell”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/16 "2004-04-28T02:14:28Z")
Well, Tony Randall fathered a child at the age of 78… ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/17 "2004-04-28T02:27:42Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > [This lightbulb has been burning for 100 years, it seems.](http://www.centennialbulb.org/) That might make it one of the oldest _electrical_ machines, at least. HA! A 100-year-old light bulb? A mere pup, I tell you. Behold! [Singer’s “Perpetual Chime”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=44406&highlight=clarendon+chime) (ca 1840) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/18 "2004-04-28T02:43:07Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I don’t know specifics, but I imagine either some wind or water mill. I recall reading about a water wheel in Syria that’s been in operation since the middle ages. However, it reminds me of the man who held up a brand new hatchet and said “this is the same hatchet that George Washington used to cut down the cherry tree. Oh sure, the handle’s been replaced a dozen times and the head three or four times, but still…” ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/19 "2004-04-28T03:12:35Z")
How about the [Baghdad Battery?](http://www.unmuseum.org/bbattery.htm) It still works. Of course, it might not have been designed as a battery at all…maybe it was just a pencil holder. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351/20 "2004-04-28T03:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Besides, I think the jury is waaaaay out still on whether Stonehenge had any actual astronomical or time-telling purpose. IIRC the opinions of most non-Fortean experts is “impossible to tell”. Well, it was definitely used to mark Summer Solstice, though everything else is a bit iffy. Certainly, we can find plenty of other alignments; the problem is that we don’t know what dates were important to the builders, so we can’t say which (if any) of the other alignments are significant. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-still-working-piece-of-machinery/242351.md?page=2)