# What is the oldest written document? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2001, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892 "2001-11-23T14:15:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/1 "2001-11-23T14:15:21Z")
Given my interest in the history of languages, this is something I should now. And yet I don’t. And thus I come before thee, denizens of this most infallible message board, and ask: So, like, what is it? And this may also be relevent: what is the oldest _legible_ written document? What does it say? ---
**Author:** ![AndyJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8491ac/32.png) [@AndyJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyJ)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/2 "2001-11-23T14:26:02Z")
Sumerian literature. It’s about 5000 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/3 "2001-11-23T14:27:25Z")
I would say Babylonian cunieform, wedge-shaped letters stamped in clay, which goes back a good 4-5000 years. [http://www.yale.edu/babylon/](http://www.yale.edu/babylon/) ---
**Author:** ![AndyJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8491ac/32.png) [@AndyJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyJ)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/4 "2001-11-23T14:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hemlock \* > \*\*I would say Babylonian cunieform, wedge-shaped letters stamped in clay, which goes back a good 4-5000 years. > > [http://www.yale.edu/babylon/](http://www.yale.edu/babylon/) \*\* According to this the Sumerians invented cunieform. [http://encarta.msn.co.uk/find/Concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&ti=761563112](http://encarta.msn.co.uk/find/Concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&ti=761563112) ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/5 "2001-11-23T14:32:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jovan \* > \*\*what is the oldest _legible_ written document? What does it say? \*\* OK - this is the really depressing bit. If it is indeed one of those old Babylonian pieces, it’s probably, um… a tax return. (This is progress?) ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/6 "2001-11-23T14:33:19Z")
The first written items were clay tablets that basically were used to keep track of shipments, inventories, possessions, etc. They have been found in what is called the Fertile Crescent. ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/7 "2001-11-23T14:40:15Z")
A recent theory is that writing first developed independently in three places - the Indus Valley, Sumeria and Egypt - between 3500 and 3100 BC. The oldest script, from Harappa in the Indus Valley (ca 3500 BC), is still untranslated and likely to remain so. ( [http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:tOOMDJHXNcE:www.ncl.ac.uk/english/undergrad/ELL365/oldest\_writing.htm+"oldest+writing"&hl=sv](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:tOOMDJHXNcE:www.ncl.ac.uk/english/undergrad/ELL365/oldest_writing.htm+%22oldest+writing%22&hl=sv) ) The earliest deciphered writing reads “Mountain of light” and is found on a postage-stamp-sized clay tablet from the “King Scorpion” tomb in Abydos, Egypt. It’s from sometime before 3000 BC. You can see a picture of it here: [http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:AICiFKuHLxo:news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid\_235000/235724.stm+earliest+sumerian+writing&hl=sv](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:AICiFKuHLxo:news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_235000/235724.stm+earliest+sumerian+writing&hl=sv) Here’s an interesting article from the New York Times: [http://www.english.uga.edu/~hypertxt/040699sci-early-writing.html](http://www.english.uga.edu/~hypertxt/040699sci-early-writing.html) ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/8 "2001-11-23T15:26:27Z")
Thanks **aegypt** , this is exactly what I was looking for. I thought it might have either been Sumerian or Egyptian. > [@](#): > > The oldest script, from Harappa in the Indus Valley (ca 3500 BC), is still untranslated and likely to remain so. ( [http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:tOOMDJHXNcE:www.ncl.ac.uk/english/undergrad/ELL365/oldest\_writing.htm+"oldest+writing"&hl=sv](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:tOOMDJHXNcE:www.ncl.ac.uk/english/undergrad/ELL365/oldest_writing.htm+%22oldest+writing%22&hl=sv) ) What are you talking about? It’s obvious this thing reads: “MY LOOV” This is a very old graffito, and English not being the native language of the Indus people (you can tell by the crude handwritting), it’s not hard to see they simply misspelled “MY LOVE”. 😉 [sub]Mountain of light, my love, gee were these people writting cheesy songs…[sub] ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/9 "2001-11-23T15:32:19Z")
I thought it was the flood insurance policy that Noah took out… 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/10 "2001-11-23T15:39:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*I thought it was the flood insurance policy that Noah took out… 🙂 \*\* I’m wondering how he collected… “Hello. You’ve reached Antedilluvian Mutual. Everyone is out of the office right now, but if you’d leave a message, we’ll get back to you as soon as we can.” [fixed coding] [Edited by bibliophage on 11-23-2001 at 09:27 PM] ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-oldest-written-document/94892/11 "2001-11-23T17:49:32Z")
I own a Sumerian cuneiform document from around 3,000 BC. It’s surprisingly not that rare; you can pick up similar items on ebay occasionally for under $1,000. Mine is believed to be a property deed. It’s about 1 1/2 inches square and 3/8 inch wide and written on both sides in cuneiform. It was probably used similarly to a card in a card index, i.e. stacked with many others in a long thin box. It has writing along one of the edges, presumably some index information, like the property holders name or the location of the property. One of the neat things about the one I have is that it has a small seal on it. People had a small spool with pictures engraved on it that they would roll in clay to sign their name.