# What is the origin of G.O.A.T **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 29, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273 "2023-10-29T19:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/1 "2023-10-29T19:18:27Z")
What is the origin of the acronym G.O.A.T. (Greatest Of All Time)? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/2 "2023-10-29T19:25:49Z")
Muhammed Ali coined the phrase “ **G** reatest **o** f **A** ll **T** ime”. In 1992 his wife incorporated G.O.A.T. Inc. as the company for his publicity and advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/3 "2023-10-29T19:33:06Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Muhammed Ali coined the phrase “ He may have adopted it, but it seems such an obvious combination of common words that “coined” seems a bit much? Or am I just so accustomed to it that I dont realize that “of all time” was then a novel expression? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/4 "2023-10-29T19:35:14Z")
Good question. I was a little kid when he started using it. The 4 word combination at least was coined by him, but I have no clue if “of all time” was common before him. Please see later post: > [@What is the origin of G.O.A.T](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/9): > > Mea Culpa: I am wrong. Everything I’ve read points to its popularity being tied to Ali and not these older uses, but now I’m afraid I’m going to be wrong about that also. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/5 "2023-10-29T19:37:48Z")
It was certainly used long before Ali. [Here](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Dwight_s_Journal_of_Music/uaE_AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22greatest+of+all+time%22&pg=PA351&printsec=frontcover) is a 1859 publication (_Dwight’s Journal of Music_) that says (of Mozart): > … which, after all, does not interfere seriously with his claim to be considered the greatest composer of his age, and in some respects, the greatest of all time. Google ngrams shows many examples from the nineteenth century. The initialism G.O.A.T. is probably much more recent though. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/6 "2023-10-29T19:40:14Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > It was certainly used long before Ali. [Here](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Dwight_s_Journal_of_Music/uaE_AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22greatest+of+all+time%22&pg=PA351&printsec=frontcover) is a 1859 publication (_Dwight’s Journal of Music_) that says (of Mozart): The full phrase “greatest of all time,” certainly; I think that the OP was asking about the GOAT acronym, specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/7 "2023-10-29T19:40:55Z")
Google ngram has “of all time” dating back at least 200 years. “Greatest of all time” also predates Ali, and did not increase in frequency in Ali’s time. It took off notably in the last 10 years. [Ninjaed by @markn_1] ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/8 "2023-10-29T19:41:31Z")
I understand; I was replying to What\_Exit’s apparent claim that the phrase itself was coined by Ali. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/9 "2023-10-29T19:43:29Z")
**Mea Culpa: I am wrong.** Everything I’ve read points to its popularity being tied to Ali and not these older uses, but now I’m afraid I’m going to be wrong about that also. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/10 "2023-10-29T19:49:38Z")
Apparently LL Cool J had a 2000 album G.O.A.T., there are some claims that this popularized it. But that looks a bit too early to me, I think it took off more like 2010? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/11 "2023-10-29T19:57:02Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But that looks a bit too early to me, I think it took off more like 2010? Here’s the Google Ngram Viewer result for “G.O.A.T.” – there’s a bump around 1980 (Ali’s initial usage, I’m guessing), a few bumps prior to that (including around 1940), but it really starts to come up around 2000 (LL Cool J?), then grows a lot more after 2012. > **[Google Books Ngram Viewer](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=G.O.A.T.&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&case_insensitive=on&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3)** > > Google Books Ngram Viewer ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/12 "2023-10-29T21:43:25Z")
Acronyms like that are also fairly recent, with fairly few exceptions, so I wouldn’t expect “GOAT” to be from before the early 20th century, at the absolute earliest. Checking what’s on [newspapers.com](http://newspapers.com), the earliest use of the phrase “GOAT (meaning/standing for/stands for/etc.) (the) greatest of all time” they have seems to be from 1996, talking about a Muhammad Ali museum (…I see Barry Popik has clipped that article). A letter to the editor from 1982 discussing Alabama governor-elect George Wallace suggests: > How about “GGOAT,” pronounced “GEE-GOAT” and meaning “Greatest Governor of All Time?” It would apply, of course, to Our George. by satirical extrapolation from a putative German “GROFAZ,” which the letter-writer says means “greatest general of all time,” and was used sarcastically to refer to Hitler. But I’m not finding much between 1982 and 1996, as obvious as “GOAT” would seem to be. (Edit: Complicated by the earlier use of “goat” to mean a poorly performing player, or one whose mistake costs their team an important game or championship, since there are plenty of much earlier uses of someone being described as the “all-time goat,” not as an acronym) ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/13 "2023-10-29T21:56:27Z")
I swear I remember some Olympic runner/sprinter using the term G.O.A.T. back in the late 80s/early 90s, but damned if I can remember the name. Not Carl Lewis, it was a little later than that. ---
**Author:** ![journeyman\_southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5e9695/32.png) [@journeyman\_southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/journeyman_southpaw)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/14 "2023-10-29T22:16:47Z")
> [@DETXL](#): > > (Edit: Complicated by the earlier use of “goat” to mean a poorly performing player, or one whose mistake costs their team an important game or championship, since there are plenty of much earlier uses of someone being described as the “all-time goat,” not as an acronym) That’s how the term was understood at the time of publication of this 1992 book - that’s Bill Buckner on the far left. Babe Ruth is on the cover for the time he made the final out of the 1926 World Series trying to steal second base. [![](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1ryKepQQeL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg) ](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1ryKepQQeL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/15 "2023-10-29T22:56:29Z")
At least it makes sense. I’ve always been offended by the sloppiness of referring to a Pontiac GTO as a “goat”. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/16 "2023-10-30T06:30:08Z")
For what it’s worth, my first exposure to GOAT was in the book Infinite Jest (from 1996). I didn’t read it until 2016, but there’s an anti-Medusa character referred to as the PGOAT: Prettiest Girl of All Time. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/17 "2023-10-30T06:46:12Z")
> [@DETXL](#): > > (Edit: Complicated by the earlier use of “goat” to mean a poorly performing player, or one whose mistake costs their team an important game or championship, since there are plenty of much earlier uses of someone being described as the “all-time goat,” not as an acronym) Another example of that usage of “goat” from 1958. > **[Peanuts by Charles Schulz for June 16, 1958 | GoComics](https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1958/06/16)** > > Read Peanuts—a comic strip by creator Charles Schulz—for today, June 16, 1958, and check out other great comics, too! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/18 "2023-10-30T08:15:09Z")
I am actually only interested in G.O.A.T. as an acronym for Greatest Of All Time. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-g-o-a-t/992273/19 "2023-10-30T08:34:10Z")
According to [Know Your Meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/goat), it, like many internet things that originate mysteriously, was popularised by the dodgy website **4chan**.