# What is the origin of the expression "a monkey fuck" for "a Dutch kiss" ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240 "2012-03-09T07:17:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/1 "2012-03-09T07:17:33Z")
Your lighter dies while you try to light up a smoke. Your friend sits next to you smoking. You ask to light your cig from his. This, I just learned, is called by many people a monkey fuck. Any idea on its etymology? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/2 "2012-03-09T12:18:50Z")
What’s the origin of the expression “a Dutch kiss”? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/3 "2012-03-09T12:36:39Z")
Geographic and socioeconomic location, please. I am not familiar with either of these terms, although it may be because of my general ignorance of modern smoker culture. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/4 "2012-03-09T14:22:15Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Geographic and socioeconomic location, please. > I am not familiar with either of these terms, although it may be because of my general ignorance of modern smoker culture. I don’t know how modern monkey fuck is, it was the common expression in Australia in my youth maybe 40 odd years ago. Never heard Dutch kiss. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/5 "2012-03-09T15:43:34Z")
Never heard of Dutch kiss, but monkey fuck was commonly used when I started smoking in Illinois in the mid-eighties. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/6 "2012-03-09T16:00:28Z")
In Saskatchewan in the 1970s and '80s it was turkey fucking. No idea of the etymology. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/7 "2012-03-09T18:43:41Z")
I wonder if it has to do with the red behind of a baboon? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/8 "2012-03-09T19:07:10Z")
A “monkey’s fuck” is british slang for something very small or worthless. I found plenty of uses in google books of this use (usually in the form “i don’t give a monkey’s fuck”) but couldn’t find any use that used it in the sense of helping someone with their cigarette. My WAG, helping someone light their cigarette is such a minor favour that it became jokingly referred to as a “monkey’s fuck” because if your not willing to do it for someone, you must really not give a monkey’s fuck about them. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/9 "2012-03-09T19:07:46Z")
A “monkey fuck”? 😕 I started smoking around 1973-74 and I’ve never heard any of those phrases. FWIW, I just can’t see myself (or _ **any** _ of my friends) saying to another, “Hey, gimme a monkey fuck.” :dubious: To light your cigarette with someone elses was to get a “jump” or a “jump start”. ---
**Author:** ![PlanetCharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@PlanetCharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanetCharlie)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/10 "2012-03-09T19:12:57Z")
I’ve always known it to be a “butt fuck.” Obvious where the term “butt” comes from when talking about cigarettes, and I also feel it appropriately describes the discomfort involved when having to ask someone for one. I doubt the “butt fuck” terminology is nationwide, but its what I’ve heard, from people from many different walks of life in California. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/11 "2012-03-09T19:23:13Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Geographic and socioeconomic location, please. > I am not familiar with either of these terms, although it may be because of my general ignorance of modern smoker culture. Middle-class young college girl NYC. She told me it was common. She also knew about “Dutch kiss.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/12 "2012-03-09T20:11:59Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Geographic and socioeconomic location, please. > I am not familiar with either of these terms, although it may be because of my general ignorance of modern smoker culture. I’m 36. “Monkey fuck” sounds vaguely familiar in my lexicon. Wouldn’t be able to place it, but used in context, I’d be able to figure it out. “Dutch kiss” I’ve never heard of. Normally, one would simply say “can I light off your cigarette?” ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/13 "2012-03-09T20:18:19Z")
Always heard it as a _jumpstart_. Not nearly as prosaic. ---
**Author:** ![bufftabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bufftabby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bufftabby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/14 "2012-03-10T02:09:48Z")
It was a “monkey fuck” in HS bathrooms in the South around 2000 and prior AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/15 "2012-03-10T02:19:05Z")
Never heard of a Dutch kiss, but monkey fuck was common in Washington around 2000 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/16 "2012-03-10T02:37:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > …“Monkey fuck” sounds vaguely familiar in my lexicon. Wouldn’t be able to place it, but used in context, I’d be able to figure it out… Those must be some weird contexts in which you can figure that out like that. I was more taken aback when she said it, along the lines of > [@JBDivmstr](#): > > … > FWIW, I just can’t see myself (or _ **any** _ of my friends) saying to another, “Hey, gimme a monkey fuck.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/17 "2012-03-11T22:26:20Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Those must be some weird contexts in which you can figure that out like that. … IMHO, I’m inclined to think that **pulykamell** meant, in the context of being asked, “Hey, could you give me a ‘monkey fuck’?”, by someone holding an unlit cigarette. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/18 "2012-03-11T22:31:03Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Always heard it as a _jumpstart_. Not nearly as prosaic. See post #9. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/19 "2012-03-11T23:07:07Z")
> [@JBDivmstr](#): > > IMHO, I’m inclined to think that **pulykamell** meant, in the context of being asked, “Hey, could you give me a ‘monkey fuck’?”, by someone holding an unlit cigarette. 😉 What if they’re also holding a monkey? ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240/20 "2012-03-11T23:21:56Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > What if they’re also holding a monkey? Back away slowly! :eek: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-the-expression-a-monkey-fuck-for-a-dutch-kiss/615240.md?page=2)