# What is the origin of 'turn and burn'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774 "2009-05-27T04:24:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/1 "2009-05-27T04:24:47Z")
That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/2 "2009-05-27T05:12:42Z")
What’s the use of the phrase? I’ve never come across it. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/3 "2009-05-27T05:31:29Z")
Context? Sun bathing? Cooking? Sexual attraction? Road rage? ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/4 "2009-05-27T05:34:36Z")
I don’t know about Johnny L.A., but in the restaurant biz, “turning and burning” refers to getting a customer in, fed, and then getting them to leave as fast as possible. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/5 "2009-05-27T05:44:09Z")
I’ve heard it in two contexts dealing with fighter planes - in an old mmo aerial combat game I played, people would refer to “turn and burn” as a style of fighting where the engines were maxed out and the maximum turn rate was used as the two planes pushed the capabilities of their aircraft to get behind the other. I’ve also seen it used in a more modern context with jets with afterburners. When you needed to disengage from something and get out of there fast (for example if you’d expended all your ordnance) you’d turn and burn - turn towards your escape route and kick on your afterburners. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/6 "2009-05-27T05:46:11Z")
I know about _turn **or** burn_ as in become a christian or go to hell. Pretty much frowned upon in most christian organisations I have been a part of. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/7 "2009-05-27T05:57:38Z")
The other way around, it’s used in stud poker when dealing out new cards. You “burn one” i.e. deal it face down, a discard, then you “turn one” dealing the next face up. ---
**Author:** ![dynamitedave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@dynamitedave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dynamitedave)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/8 "2009-05-27T08:30:08Z")
I thought is was a description about starting up turbine engines. First, spin them up (turn), then light the fire to get them burning. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/9 "2009-05-27T11:09:42Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve also seen it used in a more modern context with jets with afterburners. When you needed to disengage from something and get out of there fast (for example if you’d expended all your ordnance) you’d turn and burn - turn towards your escape route and kick on your afterburners. Same here. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/10 "2009-05-27T13:23:54Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Context? > > Sun bathing? Cooking? Sexual attraction? Road rage? ‘Let’s move!’ ‘Work faster and more legibly!’ ‘Get on the ball!’ > [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve also seen it used in a more modern context with jets with afterburners. When you needed to disengage from something and get out of there fast (for example if you’d expended all your ordnance) you’d turn and burn - turn towards your escape route and kick on your afterburners. This fits the idea that I had. I also considered (nod to **dynamitedave** ) a WWII origin where a pilot would ‘turn’ the prop (start the engine) and ‘burn’ down the runway (take off quickly, ‘burn rubber’ in a car analogy). My dad used ‘turn and burn’. He was Combat Aircrew in an AD-4 during Korea. He also used to say, ‘Kick the tire, light the fire, and go!’ Growing up around airplanes, I took this to mean ‘Do a cursory preflight, start the engine, and take off.’ (i.e. ‘Let’s get this show on the road!’, another thing he used to say. Later I figured out it could be a car analogy, as people used to kick the tires.) ‘Kick the tire, light the fire, and go!’ has a different meaning from ‘turn and burn’. As dad used them, the former indicated a desire to leave quickly, and the latter seemed to be used in a situation already in progress or an expectation of work to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/11 "2009-05-27T13:29:55Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’ve also seen it used in a more modern context with jets with afterburners. When you needed to disengage from something and get out of there fast (for example if you’d expended all your ordnance) you’d turn and burn - turn towards your escape route and kick on your afterburners. It’s used in that sense in _Top Gun_. [This article](http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/256684) about the A-7 Corsair uses it to refer to a 7-g turn, which I assume would require the pilot to turn the plane _with_ the afterburners running. ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/12 "2009-05-27T14:52:12Z")
In poker, it is burn and turn, you are essentially discarding the top card to prevent any advantage a player may have received by being flashed (shown) the card. It is hard to flash the second card. Therefore, the purpose is to insure the integrity of the game. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/13 "2009-05-27T14:58:13Z")
“Turn and burn” is probably “the whole nine yards” all over again. My wager is on “not conclusively traceable in print to any one specific thing, just a bit of rhyming slang”. By far the most common meaning of “turn and burn” is what **Johnny L.A.** gives in post #10. It’s used mostly in situations where the work to be “turned and burned” comes in discrete chunks - waiting tables at a restaurant, a stack of forms on a desk, pieces of software code, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/14 "2009-05-27T15:12:20Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > By far the most common meaning of “turn and burn” is what **Johnny L.A.** gives in post #10. As far as the origin, do you mean where I quoted **SenorBeef**? (i.e., turn the aircraft and leave quickly.) Or to start the engine and take off quickly? ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/15 "2009-05-27T16:23:20Z")
I’d heard it used sarcastically when referring to the B36 Peacemaker strategic bomber which had a combination of props and jets. I met a fellow years ago who flew them back in the day and he had the same joke which was something like this (from Wikipedia): “If all engines function normally at full power during the pre-takeoff warm-up, the lead flight engineer will sometimes say to the AC (Aircraft Commander), ‘six turning and four burning.’ Erratic reliability led to the wisecrack, ‘two turning, two burning, two joking, and two smoking, with two engines not accounted for.’” > **[Convair B-36 Peacemaker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36)** > > The Convair B-36 "Peacemaker"\[N 1\] is a strategic bomber that was built by Convair and operated by the United States Air Force (USAF) from 1949 to 1959. The B-36 is the largest mass-produced piston-engined aircraft ever built. It had the longest wingspan of any combat aircraft ever built, at 230 ft (70 m). The B-36 was the first bomber capable of delivering any of the nuclear weapons in the U.S. arsenal from an internal bomb bay without aircraft modifications. With a range of 10,000 mi (16,000 km... ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/16 "2009-05-27T19:35:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > As far as the origin, do you mean where I quoted **SenorBeef**? (i.e., turn the aircraft and leave quickly.) Or to start the engine and take off quickly? Not origin – I suspect that the origins of the phrase are undiscernable through printed sources. There will be many verbal anecdotes, of course. I was referring to this phrase of yours when someone upstream wanted to know what the phrase meant and in what context it was used: _‘Let’s move!’ ‘Work faster and more legibly!’ ‘Get on the ball!’_ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_the_turtle/32/2926_2.png) [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_the_Turtle)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-origin-of-turn-and-burn/497774/17 "2009-05-27T20:06:01Z")
I’ve only heard it in context of fighters. After popping chaff you want to alter your speed and direction so the missile radar seeker does not reacquire you - hence Turn and Burn means get the hell out of Dodge.