# What is the Plural of "Arkansas?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936 "2020-02-14T16:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/21 "2020-02-14T19:54:18Z")
Easy question, if you approach it correctly. Find the plural of Kansas. Then precede that with “Ar.” ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/22 "2020-02-14T20:07:50Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure, but he’s probably better off rewriting/writing the sentences to not even have to do that- any way you try and pluralize “Arkansas” is liable to look awkward. > > So rather than “The Akransas’ engines were…” rewrite it like: > > “The engines of the \*Arkansas \*class were…” > > Or something similar- avoid having to pluralize it by writing the sentence differently. Yeah, my thought, too. I’d probably shorten it a little more: “The Arkansas class engines were …”. That’s somewhat improper in that it’s not clear that you mean the engines of the Arkansas class ships rather than the engines themselves having a class, but it’s not likely to be misunderstood in context of an article discussing Arkansas class monitors. “The Arkansas class had \*\*\*\* engines” works, too. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/23 "2020-02-14T20:09:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The plural of Jones is Joneses, as in [“keeping up with the Joneses.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_up_with_the_Joneses) The plural possessive would normally be Joneses’. > > I’m going to ask for a style guide citation for alternatives to that. Sorry, I wrote quite carelessly. The rule is (possibly with some exceptions according to the style guide) that the _singular_ possessive is formed using ‘s : Jones’s friend, Camus’s writings, Arkansas’s history. I agree that in the plural you should write the Joneses’ friend (stipulating that Joneses is the correct plural) because it ends in -s. So Arkansas’ (according to my first suggestion) and Arkansases’ would be consistent with that. The question is, what to do with a plural word ending in silent s. (Enfants terribles? I need to think of some better examples.) You are probably right that it is still just an apostrophe, but now I need to hunt down multiple style guides to be sure… ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/24 "2020-02-14T20:10:59Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You think that lets you off the hook? :dubious: > > Arkies is the plural of [alligators.](https://encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entries/big-arkie-2213/) Whoo Pig!! ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/25 "2020-02-14T22:21:02Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > I’m also curious about potential need(s) for such a construction. Quite apart from the ship example of the OP, the word “Arkansas” can also refer to a type of novaculite, or a whetstone made from it, so in a conversation about geology, mineralogy, or blade sharpening, it might make sense to refer to different specimens or varieties in the plural. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/26 "2020-02-14T22:29:39Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Easy question, if you approach it correctly. > > Find the plural of Kansas. Then precede that with “Ar.” Technically Kansas is plural; it’s the plural of the Kansa people who occupied part of what is now Kansas. > **[Kaw people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaw_people)** > > The Kaw Nation (or Kanza or Kansa) is a federally recognized Native American tribe in Oklahoma and parts of Kansas. > The Kaw people historically lived in the central Midwestern United States. They have also been called the "People of the South wind", "People of water", Kansa, Kaza, Konza, Conza, Quans, Kosa, and Kasa. Their tribal language is Kansa, classified as a Siouan language. > The state of Kansas was named for this tribe. The name of Topeka, capital city of Kansas, is said to be the Kaw wo... Fun fact, one of the Kansas was Herbert Hoover’s Vice President, Charles Curtis. (He was also from Kansas.) Of course we’re talking about the state so that’s a bit of a tangent. 😉 The state, by the way, was named for the Kansas River, which was named for the Kansa people (also called the Kaw Nation). ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/27 "2020-02-14T22:35:04Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Technically Kansas is plural; it’s the plural of the Kansa people who occupied part of what is now Kansas. It’s “technically” plural in the same way that “panini” is “technically” plural—which is to say, in a way that’s completely irrelevant for this thread’s English-language question. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/28 "2020-02-14T23:03:39Z")
This is the one situation where English has, like Slovene, two forms of nominative plural. It goes: one Arkansas, two Arakain, three (or more,) Arrkanzid. However the genetive plural is the same for any number more than one of Arrkanzid; it’s ‘Arkainy’. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/29 "2020-02-15T00:12:08Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Sorry, I wrote quite carelessly. The rule is (possibly with some exceptions according to the style guide) that the _singular_ possessive is formed using ‘s : Jones’s friend, Camus’s writings, Arkansas’s history. I agree that in the plural you should write the Joneses’ friend (stipulating that Joneses is the correct plural) because it ends in -s. So Arkansas’ (according to my first suggestion) and Arkansases’ would be consistent with that. The question is, what to do with a plural word ending in silent s. (Enfants terribles? I need to think of some better examples.) You are probably right that it is still just an apostrophe, but now I need to hunt down multiple style guides to be sure… OK, for instance _A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language_ distinguishes nouns with a regular plural, in which case the genitive is always written with a final apostrophe: “boys’”, from irregular plurals whose genitive is formed with ‘s. It doesn’t seem to involve the pronunciation of the ending except in the singular case, where Jones’ vs Jones’s is discussed. This begs the question, is Arkansas supposed to be a regular, or an irregular plural? (Or is there an omission from their chart? “Analyses” is mentioned as an example of an irregular plural, but what does it become in the genitive? They don’t say, at least not clearly. Anyone else want to double-check the text?) A regular plural “Arkansases” (cf. Joneses) seems to be ruled out because the noun does not end in a sibilant, but, of course, it might be an irregular plural! But it seems the plural of a singular “Arkansas” should be “Arkansas” (with a /z/) on the model of “corps” and “chassis”, which would make the genitive plural a regular Arkansas’ , corps’ as far as I interpret the rules in that chapter (and it would be “enfants terribles’s” !?! and also would have been “Arkansas’s” in the plural too if Arkansas-with-a-silent-s _were_ plural) That’s the one book, anyway. Kansas is pronounced with an /s/, so its plural is Kansases and genitive plural is Kansases’. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/30 "2020-02-15T00:45:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Technically Kansas is plural; it’s the plural of the Kansa people who occupied part of what is now Kansas. As I said above about Arkansas, Kansas may be plural in derivation but it is treated as a singular noun in English. Kansas is a US state, not Kansas are a US state. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/31 "2020-02-15T01:08:06Z")
Thank you all. Sorry for my typo. I seem to be making more and more of them in the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/32 "2020-02-15T01:16:31Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Whoo Pig!! This from the woman who murdered [piglet!](https://www.fabric.com/buy/0376263/disney-winnie-the-pooh-iron-on-applique-piglet) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/33 "2020-02-15T08:18:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Given that only one of the four ships was named Arkansas, it seems wrong to refer to collectively by that name. Instead you would call them the Arkansas-class monitors, and then perhaps just the monitors. This. The wiki article on them seems badly written as this is the standard way of referring to a particular class of ships. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/34 "2020-02-15T09:08:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > This from the woman who murdered [piglet!](https://www.fabric.com/buy/0376263/disney-winnie-the-pooh-iron-on-applique-piglet) \*Carni!!-don’t make me come to the big Rock to find you. \*nickname any way it was like 22 piglets…none were pink or wore clothes ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/35 "2020-02-15T09:12:57Z")
BTW…the lil’wrekker says in her \*infinite wisdom: More than one Arkansas is an Arkans-ass (\*She’s a young whippersnapper with almost 3 years at University under her belt) ---
**Author:** ![jerez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c68b51/32.png) [@jerez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jerez)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/36 "2020-02-15T11:25:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > …the Kansas River, which was named for the Kansa people (also called **the Kaw Nation** ). I thought that was the Crow people (haw). ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/37 "2020-02-15T13:28:07Z")
> [@jerez](#): > > I thought that was the Crow people (haw). That’s a rookie mistake to make! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/38 "2020-02-15T14:47:52Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As a former brief resident of Kansas, I think the plural of Kansas would be “Kansases”. I may have even heard that term before. > > “Arkansas” of course is pronounced differently (the last “s” is silent) so I’m tempted to pronounce it like “Arkansaws”. But I’m not sure how that would be written. Maybe it’s spelled “Arkansases” but pronounced “Arkansaws”? That is how I would pronounce it and spell it. If you google “two Arkansases” you can find a few uses of the Arkansas plural on the web and in print that way. (“Two Arkansases” as in the context of, say, a rural and urban Arkansas divide. Come to think of it, my state, Illinois, would have a rather awkward plural, as well: Illinoises. “A Tale of Two Illinoises.” I would pronounce that as “Ill-in-oyz” not “Ill-in-oyz-es.”) That said, there is precedent in the English language to pluralize words with a terminal silent-S by leaving the word as-is. Take the plurals of “chassis,” “rendezvous,” and “patois,” for instance. All, so far as I can find, have identical singular and plural spellings (though one dictionary notes “rendezvouses” as a “rare” plural, listing “rendezvous” as the preferred plural). Even “faux pas” is made “faux pas” in the plural. (In all these cases, though, the pronunciation does change, with the “s” being sounded in the plural.) I actually cannot find a case in which a word with a silent-s at the end is made plural by adding “es.” That said, there’s not a wealth of examples in English. So there is some merit to the idea of pluralizing “Arkansas” by leaving it alone. My instinct would be just to append the standard plural marker (“es” in this case) absent guidance from a dictionary declaring “Arkansas” to be the plural, but if we were to extrapolate a rule based on other terminal silent-s words, leaving it alone would be defensible. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/39 "2020-02-15T16:24:26Z")
Since the spelling of words like “Illinois” and “Arkansas” comes from French orthography, maybe, like in French, the final silent “s” should sometimes be allowed to be un-silent. So, I propose that in the plurals “Arkansases” and “Illinoises” that the _S_es are all pronounced. I’ve been sitting here saying them to myself and getting used to it. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936/40 "2020-02-15T16:48:23Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Instead you would call them the Arkansas-class monitors, and then perhaps just the monitors. This is the correct answer to this and almost all “this structure seems incredibly awkward to express clearly and grammatically” questions. Re-write it so that it is can be clear and grammatical. This is also why brand names usually do not officially have a plural. You’re not supposed to say “Rolls-Royces,” you’re supposed to say “Rolls-Royce automobiles.” [Cite.](http://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/TrademarkUseFactSheet.aspx) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-plural-of-arkansas/847936.md?page=3)