# What is the point of abolishing abortion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 30, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471 "2024-08-30T16:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/141 "2024-09-01T21:23:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But God doesn’t _actually_ say anything, so that’s just a way for people to label their own personal desires as divine will. They might as well be claiming to be God themselves and demand obedience. That is not how they see it. Specifically, God endows with life. The Bible is brimming with that particular tenet. You can’t say God ‘doesn’t actually say anything.’ He/she may not say anything that satisfies _you_, but that’s not the same as not saying anything. To deny that God-given life is to deny God. Anyway, arguing this point with those who believe it is as useless as arguing this point with those who don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/142 "2024-09-01T21:26:42Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > To deny that God-given life is to deny God. And/or all the other gods, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/143 "2024-09-01T21:28:56Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > That is not how they see it. Of course not, it would remove their excuse for declaring their desires divine will, and remove their excuse for abusing and killing people. They’ll never _admit_ what they are doing, in many cases even to themselves; that doesn’t change what they _are_ doing. You might as well expect a slavemaster to admit that slaves deserve freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/144 "2024-09-01T21:59:15Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > If they truly believed that, they would be champions for [comprehensive sex education](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8872707/) and [free birth control](https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/free-birth-control-cuts-teen-pregnancies-abortions/). Can you point me to the link of a major “pro-life” organization that champions those things? Sex education teaches kids it’s okay to have recreational sex and any form of interference with God’s will in the form of keeping sprem and egg apart is as bad as abortion (and again, encourages non procreative sex). Rather easy to explain. It’s _wrong_, but how it fits into their worldview is pretty obvious, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/145 "2024-09-01T22:03:55Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Sex education teaches kids it’s okay to have recreational sex and any form of interference with God’s will in the form of keeping sprem and egg apart is as bad as abortion (and again, encourages non procreative sex). Doesn’t change that their position is completely different that that of people _genuinely_ trying to reduce abortions. Almost as if that wasn’t the point at all… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/146 "2024-09-01T22:09:27Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > But God doesn’t _actually_ say anything, so that’s just a way for people to label their own personal desires as divine will. They might as well be claiming to be God themselves and demand obedience. ⁢ > > That is not how they see it. Specifically, God endows with life. The Bible is brimming with that particular tenet. You can’t say God ‘doesn’t actually say anything.’ He/she may not say anything that satisfies _you_, but that’s not the same as not saying anything. We can in this case, because the Bible, which they believe is God’s Word, doesn’t say anything about abortion. He doesn’t say that sex is only procreation. Using Paul, he in fact says the opposite–that you should never forego sex so as not to deprive each other. When their Holy Book doesn’t say this stuff, I think it’s entirely fair to wonder what their actual motivation is. Why did the Catholic Church do all this? And why do so many who are supposed anti-Catholic or at least against Catholic Tradition willing to join in with it? I say it’s not at all because of what y’all mention. It’s that they have married their politics to their religion. It doesn’t matter to them that God doesn’t say this stuff. No, it’s part of being a “conservative,” which is now holy. They will change their minds on things if the conservatives do. It’s all over recent events and who they support politically. Trying to make abortion illegal is just what a good conservative is supposed to do, and thus what a good Christian is supposed to do. I almost never meet anyone who has taken it further than a few trite sayings, repeating supposed “gotchas.” And, FYI, I have direct experience as someone who used to be pro-life. I very much did not think about any of that. It was what I was supposed to be. Then I needed a few talking points to justify it. None of which did I apply to anything else. The exception was I did think less of girls who got pregnant. But, again, that was because I was supposed to, not because I’d thought it through. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/147 "2024-09-01T22:10:08Z")
Well, I mean, to them, it’s like that story where if you push a button, you get money but someone dies. Or that Tumblr (I think) joke where someone is begging for help with budgeting for their starving family, and they spend $2000 a month on candles. Imperfect analogies, to be sure, but my main point is that we all have circumstances where we just want to scream at someone, just don’t do that, then! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/148 "2024-09-01T23:10:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Ulfreida](#): > > > > That is not how they see it. > > Of course not, it would remove their excuse for declaring their desires divine will, and remove their excuse for abusing and killing people. They’ll never _admit_ what they are doing, in many cases even to themselves; that doesn’t change what they _are_ doing. You might as well expect a slavemaster to admit that slaves deserve freedom You are right in the sense that from a, like, social evolution perspective, you explain the trends and forces that bring about organized religions and makes it so that the organized religions that successfully spread and stick around have these aspects of control. That doesn’t mean that individual members of the religion are motivated by a desire to control and dominate. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/149 "2024-09-01T23:15:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I think it’s entirely fair to wonder what their actual motivation is. Why did the Catholic Church do all this? I do not wonder. I infer. The strength of the Church is in its numbers. It was motivated to convince Catholics to make as many more Catholics as possible. (Bearing in mind that this came from an era where a person had less than a 20% chance of even making it to old enough to make babies.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/150 "2024-09-01T23:27:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That doesn’t mean that individual members of the religion are motivated by a desire to control and dominate. No-It just gives them an “out” if questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/151 "2024-09-02T00:23:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That doesn’t mean that individual members of the religion are motivated by a desire to control and dominate. Wrong, since that’s exactly what they are _doing._ Controlling, dominating, torturing and killing. At most they are lying to themselves about their own actions. They might as well go around shooting people and claiming it’s not _really_ killing since their targets just go to Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/152 "2024-09-02T03:06:27Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Iron Triangle I have heard of that. It was the IUD that they had to recall, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/153 "2024-09-02T12:35:40Z")
Well, the blind, unmitigated hatred of Christianity, a religion with over 2.4 billion adherents, all of whom are horrible people utterly unlike yourselves, being demonstrated here, is, um, impressive. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/154 "2024-09-02T13:29:19Z")
Crucify the straw man. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/155 "2024-09-02T13:50:43Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Well, the blind, unmitigated hatred of Christianity, a religion with over 2.4 billion adherents, all of whom are horrible people utterly unlike yourselves, being demonstrated here, is, um, impressive. Yeah, but we live in a Christian dominated society, so anything you say about them, no matter how vile, is fair game. That same exact vitriol directed at equally backwards religious groups who don’t happen to have the same level of control that Christians do at this place and time would be called out as exceedingly racist and possibly get mod action involved. Can you _imagine_ the shit show if this post was directed at Muslims? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Of course not, it would remove their excuse for declaring their desires divine will, and remove their excuse for abusing and killing people. They’ll never _admit_ what they are doing, in many cases even to themselves; that doesn’t change what they _are_ doing. You might as well expect a slavemaster to admit that slaves deserve freedom. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/156 "2024-09-02T14:22:12Z")
I would argue that this is more a case of “hating the sin, but not the sinner.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/157 "2024-09-02T14:25:27Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I would argue that this is more a case of “hating the sin, but not the sinner.”. No, I specifically asked him if he was talking about Christianity as a religion or about individual Christians, and he confirmed his issue was with individual Christians. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > That doesn’t mean that individual members of the religion are motivated by a desire to control and dominate. > > Wrong, since that’s exactly what they are _doing._ Controlling, dominating, torturing and killing. > > At most they are lying to themselves about their own actions. They might as well go around shooting people and claiming it’s not _really_ killing since their targets just go to Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/158 "2024-09-02T14:28:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > > > I would argue that this is more a case of “hating the sin, but not the sinner.”. > > No, I specifically asked him if he was talking about Christianity as a religion or about individual Christians, and he confirmed his issue was with individual Christians. I would argue that both things can be true: you can criticize individual Christians for a particular belief (turned into action) on their part _without_ painting Christianity, writ large, with any particular broad brush. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/159 "2024-09-02T14:36:27Z")
As helpful as that strawman is in diverting attention from all those poor, pitiful _People Of Power And Influence Currently Making Religious Law For Our Supposedly Secular Nation_, I’m afraid it just doesn’t work in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471/160 "2024-09-02T14:39:55Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > you can criticize individual Christians for a particular belief (turned into action) on their part _without_ painting Christianity, writ large, with any particular broad brush. Cool, but we aren’t discussing hypotheticals, we are discussing specific posts made in this thread, and those posts were pretty clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-abolishing-abortion/1006471.md?page=9)