# What is the point of living if we're all going to die?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 7, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123 "2019-02-07T15:06:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/104 "2019-02-09T01:19:33Z")
> [@senoy](#):
>
> I would claim that given the parameters of the question, people’s feelings and emotions are valueless. Conciousness is interesting, but valuable? To whom exactly? If feelings and emotions had value, then why aren’t we doing our best to crank out 20 kids each and fill the world with value? Of course, we find that ridiculous, because we recognize that simply having more emotions in the world doesn’t do much of anything. If there’s one guy with emotions or a trillion with emotions, there is no cosmic bank saying ‘You’re almost out of emotions, better stock up.’ There’s no difference in value between someone who spends their life perpetually gleeful and someone who suffers from depression.
>
> We know full well what emotions are. Chemical releases that ensured our ancestors’ survival by encouraging certain behaviors. The ‘value’ behind fear is that you don’t go petting bears. The ‘value’ behind happiness is that you eat enough not to die or rub your genitals on someone else’s so there is some sort of perpetuation of the random system. Nothing more than that. Having ‘fear’ or ‘sadness’ or ‘happiness’ are simply states of being that are no more than biological ‘check engine’ lights. Delighting in the pain of others just means that your ‘check engine’ light is wired a bit differently. There’s no inherent reason to make sure that everyone else’s ‘check engine’ light is a certain color, nor is there a reason to make sure that yours is. There’s no inherent reason not to experience suffering. You can say that you don’t ‘want’ to, but wants themselves are simply biological nudges and there’s no inherent reason to follow them.
>
> When you say, “Our meaning is to follow our happiness” or “To bring happiness to others,” what you’re really saying is “Our meaning is to flood our systems with serotonin, dopamines and opioid peptides.” That’s a great meaning, but there are a lot easier ways to do that then going to the Louvre or hang-gliding. To go back to ‘heroin addict,’ if your true purpose is to bring happiness, then you should flood municipal water supplies with heroin and cause everyone to OD in a glorious fireworks display of pure joy. Jim Jones should be our greatest hero. He made a lot of people happy and when the suffering was going to come, they all drank the Kool-Aid.
>
> The reality is that humanism is a failed philosophy, but we cling to it because we don’t have anything else. Humanism is the volleyball from Castaway. The only value it has is that it’s all that’s there. It’s not solipsism because I’m not debating that there is a volleyball, I’m only questioning why you or I should care. And if the only response is ‘It releases more oxytocin into my neural gaps,’ then I’m having a real hard time calling that value.
You are acting as if value has some meaning outside of consciousness. What was the value of the early universe, for the first couple of billion years? Nothing unless we with our conscious minds assign some value to it.
I agree that emotions are purely chemical. I don’t believe in anything supernatural. But we feel these emotions - or at least I do, and I assume you do also.
Everyone being high all the time would only work in the short run, since soon we’d all starve to death. And I think many of us are happier solving problems than getting high. I am. Our genes control our reaction to drugs, after all.
Solipism as I’m defining it here means the acknowledgement that others have feelings, not that others exist. If no one feels but you then you are not ethically bound to consider their feelings. Otherwise, you are. I don’t mean that you are bound to maximize their feelings, just consider them.
Given that others have feelings, the value of life (which only has meaning if we are conscious) involves maximizing happiness. This isn’t trivial. How do we weight our happiness versus that of family versus that of strangers? We all do this differently, which is where different ethical systems come from. But we all do it.
Universes without consciousness have no value. Say a universe comes into existence and then collapses back into itself before life originated anywhere. Is this a tragedy? I’d say not. No value, no tragedy.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/105 "2019-02-09T01:32:43Z")
> [@senoy](#):
>
> That’s what we’re debating. If you contend that they are all merely subjective constructs, then we’re halfway to the OPs answer which is that you feel that objective meaning is an impossibility since such a thing by its nature is merely construct.
>
> The next question that I think we have already dived into is whether subjective meaning is truly meaning at all. I would contend that it is not.
I get it now. I agree with you about the lack of objective value. All value is indeed subjective, but our level of satisfaction of the value we see is objective in that it can be reported on. And subjective in that the same circumstances will provide different levels of value for different people.
Some people think living in the city is valuable. Some people think living in the city is hellish and living 20 miles from the nearest neighbor is valuable. They are both right.
That’s a problem with religions. They try to set up an objective value system that pretty much matches what the founders of the religion feel was valuable. And then claim that this is what God finds valuable.
So a believer might think that whatever god wants is objectively valuable, and gives a purpose. But what they see as God wanting is subjective. So we’re back to square one.
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### Author:  [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/106 "2019-02-09T03:59:50Z")
> [@senoy](#):
>
> If I do and she says that she preferred getting water from a well and that outhouses have a certain charm, does that make my assertion correct? Because I definitely know ‘off-grid’ people that prefer outhouses.
Well if you can find any reason to suppose your hypothetical anecdote would happen then you have an anecdote.
> [@](#):
>
> What you’re doing is assigning a value to something that doesn’t exist. You’re welcome to assign that value, but it’s arbitrary.[…]
> It’s nice that we as a society can agree on things, but ‘purpose by the mob’ is hardly a real purpose if for no other reason than societies can agree on some pretty horrific things.
I think you’re being obtuse and the only thing to work out at this point is whether you’re being _deliberately_ obtuse. You’re one level away from saying, say, “The meaning of words is arbitrary; who’s to say the words you’re typing have meaning?”
I notice you didn’t try to bite the bullet and claim that anyone thinks dying of smallpox is better than not doing so.
> [@](#):
>
> You’re entitled to believe that you have a purpose, but it doesn’t make it so. Creating your own purpose is the same as saying that you’re unaware of your purpose.
What were you expecting? That there is an objective meaning to life and we uncover it in a straight dope thread?
_Of course_ it’s going to be just talking about how people find meaning within their own lives; we can take it as a given that humanity knows no demonstrable over-arching meaning yet.
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### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2019, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/107 "2019-02-09T07:08:39Z")
> [@senoy](#):
>
> People BELIEVE that things are better. No doubt about it. We all have opinions on such matters. The belief doesn’t make it so. As mentioned, quite a few people BELIEVE that Trump is the greatest President of all time, that doesn’t make it so.
If you truly believe all of this, to the bone, then the civilization around you is remarkable for making it so.
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### Author:  [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/108 "2019-02-09T18:36:40Z")
To exist or not to exist… this will be a forever a question that cannot be answered.
Let’s say you are Joe. You will live and die as Joe. When Joe dies Joe does not exist any more. Joe’s life was Joe’s only.
His spirit/soul never dies. He will become something else who knows what. Maybe he’ll be William or Wilma next time.
Or maybe he’ll be a tree. Life is a mystery that only God knows.
Wait! God? Does God exists? Who knows, just like everything else.
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### Author:  [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/109 "2019-02-09T19:52:56Z")
I used to think life was pointless, but recently someone on this board asked what my favorite time of day was. I thought to myself: it’s the time I spend between getting ready for work and going to work. Either that or going out window shopping. Maybe it’s not much, but for me it’s enough.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/110 "2019-02-09T20:11:50Z")
the purpose of life as a collective sentient group is to evolve to the point we understand the physics of time. It will allow us to go back in time and fix movies like “Groundhog Day”…
It is # 42 on the bucket list of living things. We’re currently waffling on #12 which involves visqueen and salad dressing.
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### Author:  [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/111 "2019-02-10T02:44:55Z")
I recently dealt with this existential issue, while being with a parent who was terminally ill, and who eventually passed away.
There’s something spiritual in humans that’s beyond this world. This is a unique planet, and we’re unique on this planet. It can’t all be for nothing…
Hope to get drunk with my dad in Heaven someday, and let him know how much I appreciated him while he was down here with me.
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### Author:  [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/112 "2019-02-10T12:32:01Z")
In the far reach of space in another galaxy there is an inhabited planet with the same thoughts. 🆒
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### Author:  [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/113 "2019-02-10T12:41:25Z")
The desire to survive and the desire to reproduce are a product of evolution and natural selection. Other than that, there is no point. At some point, perhaps billions of years in the future, all life on earth will cease and eventually all evidence of life on earth will disappear, too. Nothing lasts forever.
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### Author:  [@Kamaski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamaski)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/114 "2019-02-10T12:47:46Z")
Jesus Christ died for for the sins of man.
He freed humanity of its self-hatred called original sin.
Jesus comforted those were were in the worst distress, he protected the weak against the strong, he performed miracles.
Man could not tolerate the truth of Christ, so the Romans condemned him to die the most painful death, on the cross.
Christ is the son of god, he is god incarnate, and he told his apostles that all those who live and believe in him shall never die, they will be granted eternal life in the kingdom of god.
God granted man his son (Jesus Christ) for a reason. To free humanity from sin and grant man eternal life. Man must not deny god, man must come to terms with himself and therefore come to terms with God.
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/115 "2019-02-10T13:04:44Z")
> [@Kamaski](#):
>
> Jesus Christ died for for the sins of man.
>
> He freed humanity of its self-hatred called original sin.
>
> Jesus comforted those were were in the worst distress, he protected the weak against the strong, he performed miracles.
>
> Man could not tolerate the truth of Christ, so the Romans condemned him to die the most painful death, on the cross.
>
> Christ is the son of god, he is god incarnate, and he told his apostles that all those who live and believe in him shall never die, they will be granted eternal life in the kingdom of god.
> God granted man his son (Jesus Christ) for a reason. To free humanity from sin and grant man eternal life. Man must not deny god, man must come to terms with himself and therefore come to terms with God.
Cite?
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/116 "2019-02-10T13:06:23Z")
> [@Kamaski](#):
>
> Man must not deny god, man must come to terms with himself and therefore come to terms with God.
Nah, I’m good as is. But thanks for the offer.
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### Author:  [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/117 "2019-02-10T14:52:24Z")
Suggest the OP spend more time around animals. Adopt a homeless dog or cat. Then observe how they don’t worry about all this stuff. You may even find yourself behaving more like they do.
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### Author:  [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/118 "2019-02-10T17:49:29Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> Cite?
KJV 1611. Got to have an open mind though. So open, that pretty much anything goes. If God’s word isn’t good enough for you, then I guess I’ve come up short. 😉
> [@Kamaski](#):
>
> Jesus Christ died for for the sins of man.
>
> He freed humanity of its self-hatred called original sin.
Then we are good now, right?
> [@Kamaski](#):
>
> Jesus comforted those were were in the worst distress, he protected the weak against the strong, he performed miracles.
Did that still give them comfort knowing an eternal fiery hell awaited for many of their loved ones who didn’t think he was all of that? At least Jehovah/Yahweh just killed you once and was done with you. Also think how many he could have saved, had he dropped the miracles, and educated them on germ theory instead of advocating not washing your hands before meals. Even better not created these germs in the first place if he truly was God.
> [@Kamaski](#):
>
> Man could not tolerate the truth of Christ, so the Romans condemned him to die the most painful death, on the cross.
He was up on the cross with some estimates of about 3-7 hours, and I can think of a lot more painful ways that humans have went out for a hell of a lot longer time and without the purpose of supposedly saving the world. So why is this so convincing? Being God, he could have also turned off the pain receptors. There is the very real possibility that none of this happened, but simply creative writing done many decades later with many redactions to follow. But to think this is more plausible, sends one straight to hell, doesn’t it?
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### Author:  [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/119 "2019-02-10T18:09:11Z")
Whoever wrote this stuff had nothing else to do. We are supposed to believe it? A man parted the Red Sea? An ass spoke?
Eve ate a forbidden fruit and we are banished from Paradise? Fucking bitch.:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/120 "2019-02-10T18:32:10Z")
Got any evidence that, as you lie dying, you won’t experience a moment of sublime clarity, such that the trials and twists of your life and relationships, come suddenly into context, the pieces begin to reorder themselves into something magical to behold, depth and meaning previously unperceived revealed and illuminated. The ultimate epiphany, a closure, an artistic masterpiece!
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/121 "2019-02-10T23:51:35Z")
> [@Razncain](#):
>
> KJV 1611. Got to have an open mind though. So open, that pretty much anything goes. If God’s word isn’t good enough for you, then I guess I’ve come up short. 😉
Man God should consult with Phillip K. Dick or something; I got bored stiff of that crappy fantasy novel before the second book came along. It feels like a hackneyed anthology of bad aesops with terrible morals and the pacing was abysmal. I can’t believe anyone ever found that engaging or interesting.
Okay, facetiousness aside, if you open your mind too much, your brain will fall out. Things that are true typically do not require blind faith. And I don’t think this is going to be particularly helpful to someone suffering from ennui - they’ve examined christianity and found the total lack of evidence rather disqualifying. They need a decent answer, not a weak and dangerous placebo.
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### Author:  [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/122 "2019-02-11T00:12:55Z")
> [@Razncain](#):
>
> KJV 1611. …
Too sanitized. I prefer the New International Version of Ezekiel 23:20 “She lusted after her lovers, who’s genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”
On the other hand, they’re both Bronze Age folklore.
As for the KJV (and all the others), everyone remembers how Noah saved all the animals but they minimize the fact that Jahovah killed millions of people, including innocent infants and unborn children, with the great flood.
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### Author:  [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-of-living-if-were-all-going-to-die/829123/123 "2019-02-11T01:28:43Z")
Even the great philosopher poets of our time don’t have an answer to the OP’s question.
_All life we work but work is a bore
If life’s for livin’, what’s livin’ for?_
–Ray Davies, “Oklahoma, USA”
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