# What is the point to flat earth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 31, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748 "2017-05-31T00:57:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/141 "2017-09-27T05:31:43Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > In lieu of a tall ship, we can use the Chicago skyline, [which tops out at 1450 feet.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Tower) Get on your speedboat at Navy Pier, head toward the Michigan shore, and watch as the Willis Tower sinks into the waves. Disregarding atmospheric refraction, the top of the antenna masts should finally disappear when you’re about 47 miles out. Even including refraction, the massive height of the tower should make the effect obvious. [nitpick] You mean the Sears Tower. There is no such thing as the “Willis” Tower. Never has been, never will be. [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/142 "2017-09-27T11:21:13Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What they say is that the Earth is a pizza and the sun-lamp-thing moves in a circle above it. That the sunset is just an illusion of perspective (it only appears to be setting because it looks close to the horizon because it is so far away). This glaring flaw in this argument is that you can watch a sunset and see the sun get _bigger_ as it crosses the horizon – as with the harvest moon. I cannot see how the perspective model could address that. For most of the day, the sun subtends exactly the same angle, except at sunrise and sunset, when it is supposed to be farther away but somehow looks bigger. Sorry for being late to the party, but that’s just an illusion. It’s been known for centuries and definitely proven to be an illusion using photography today. Interestingly, there is no consensus on what causes it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon\_illusion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion) Maybe the Flat Earthers can finally solve it for us. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/143 "2017-09-27T13:47:23Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > The expression originates in the Hebrew text of the bible. It came into English from the bible. The actual line is “_the four wings of the land_”, with “wings” being a Hebrew euphemism for the edges or corners of a garment. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/144 "2017-09-27T23:55:31Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > Sorry for being late to the party, but that’s just an illusion. It’s been known for centuries and definitely proven to be an illusion using photography today. Interestingly, there is no consensus on what causes it. > > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon\_illusion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion) > > Maybe the Flat Earthers can finally solve it for us. It is certainly a convincing illusion! Now, there is the cute bit where the sun’s angular rate of movement through the sky slows down, right at sunrise and sunset. The atmosphere refracts the image. When you see the sun exactly bisected by the horizon…in “actuality” the sun has already fully set. You’re looking “around the corner” just a bit. A flat-earther might say that this explains ships sinking behind the horizon…but the fact it that this is exactly opposite of an explanation! Ships don’t sink behind the horizon quite as fast as they would if you were seeing them in a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/145 "2017-09-28T00:42:43Z")
The “apparent distance hypothesis” is the only explanation of the Moon illusion that makes sense to me. Explanations that depend on the perception of other objects in the field of vision (trees, buildings, clouds, etc) can’t explain why the moon illusion still appears when the moon sets over the cloudless ocean, where there’s nothing else in sight. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/146 "2017-09-28T00:51:13Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > The “apparent distance hypothesis” is the only explanation of the Moon illusion that makes sense to me. Me, too. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/147 "2017-09-28T13:04:12Z")
Once you go irrational on something like the shape of the Earth, people just double down. E.g., one of the leading (Biblical) Flat Earther’s out there uses the usual round disc model with unusual optics. The disc, of course, does not have four corners/edges. And the optics would mess with Satan showing Jesus all the nations from the high mountain. And on and on. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/148 "2017-09-28T17:02:10Z")
Well, we cannot know for sure that it does not have four corners. The edge is the Antarctic Ice Wall that holds in the oceans. No one knows what is beyond the Ice Wall. It could have corners, out there in the misty uncertainty. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/149 "2017-09-28T18:16:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Well, we cannot know for sure that it does not have four corners. The edge is the Antarctic Ice Wall that holds in the oceans. No one knows what is beyond the Ice Wall. It could have corners, out there in the misty uncertainty. Although rumor has that it probably looks something like [this](http://gameofthronestheories.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/wall-game-of-thrones.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/150 "2017-09-29T03:02:43Z")
If you have a couple of hours to spare for entertainment, try this Flat Earth “documentary”: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/fk4YqPtvJao/hqdefault.jpg "Under The Dome - Full Documentary") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk4YqPtvJao) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/151 "2018-03-26T19:30:41Z")
Mad Mike Hughes finally [took off in his rocket](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/03/26/mad-mike-hughes-who-believes-earth-flat-blasts-off-self-built-rocket/457780002/) to, um, something something. (The flight was less than 2000’ over the Mojave Desert, and it looks like the rocket had no windows, so I guess he was trying to prove – no, I have no guesses. It was just a publicity stunt.) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/152 "2018-03-27T00:00:05Z")
Based on posts in this (and other) threads, it’s clear that a good number of dopers believe many Flat Earthers are biblical literalists. But I met a FEer (quite some loong time ago) who scoffed at this, and held it up as proof of how deluded FE deniers are. He claimed it derived from easily observed “evidence”, to which the Bible has almost nothing to contribute. So I ask whether it’s true that there’s substantial overlap between biblical literalists and FEers, or not? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/153 "2018-05-01T17:49:19Z")
[This was just pointed out to me](http://en.protothema.gr/australia-doesnt-exist-says-woman/) (dated last August), \*Australia is not real. It’s a hoax, made for us to believe that Britain moved over their criminals to someplace. In reality, all these criminals were loaded off the ships into the waters, drowning before they could see land ever again. It’s a coverup for one of the greatest mass murders in history, made by one of the most prominent empires. Australia does not exist. All things you call “proof” are actually well fabricated lies and documents made by the leading governments of the world. Your Australian friends? They’re all actors and computer generated personas, part of the plot to trick the world. If you think you’ve ever been to Australia, you’re terribly wrong. The plane pilots are all in on this, and have in all actuality only flown you to islands close nearby – or in some cases, parts of South America, where they have cleared space and hired actors to act out as real Australians. Australia is one of the biggest hoaxes ever created, and you have all been tricked. Join the movement today, and make it known that they have been deceived. Make it known, that this has all just been a cover-up. The things these “Australian” says to be doing, all these swear words and actions based on alcoholism, MDMA and bad decisions, are all ways to distract you from the ugly truth that is one of the greatest genocides in history. 162,000 people was said to have been transported to this imaginary land during a mere 80 years, and they are all long dead by now. They never reached that promised land. Tell the truth. Stand up for what is right. Make sure to spread the world – Australia is not real. It’s a codeword for the cold blooded murder of more than a hundred thousand people, and it is not okay. We will not, accept this. Stand up for the ones who died. Let it be known, that Australia does not exist.\* There are some on this board who claim to be antipodeans: what are you guys playing at? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/154 "2018-05-01T18:10:07Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Some Flat Earthers are just trolling but others are deadly serious and truly insane. They aren’t trying to prove anything. That is reality to them. It is hardly unique or even that rare. There are people that truly believe that the World Trade Centers were brought down by explosives planted by the U.S. government and the planes (and the passengers) either didn’t exist at all or were in on it. I think most of them are just trolling. ---
**Author:** ![wallewek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/71e660/32.png) [@wallewek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wallewek)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/155 "2018-05-01T18:38:09Z")
The real question here is why you bother arguing with such time-waters, serious or otherwise. I think it was Bill Murray who said “It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.” ---
**Author:** ![wallewek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/71e660/32.png) [@wallewek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wallewek)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/156 "2018-05-01T20:43:36Z")
Some people are just suckers for secrets. They cling desperately to those precious idiocies, and find stupid defenses for them. Such people are lost: they cannot be cured. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/157 "2018-05-02T04:05:28Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [This was just pointed out to me](http://en.protothema.gr/australia-doesnt-exist-says-woman/) (dated last August), > > \*Australia is not real. It’s a hoax, made for us to believe that Britain moved over their criminals to someplace. In reality, all these criminals were loaded off the ships into the waters, drowning before they could see land ever again. It’s a coverup for one of the greatest mass murders in history, made by one of the most prominent empires. > > Australia does not exist. All things you call “proof” are actually well fabricated lies and documents made by the leading governments of the world. Your Australian friends? They’re all actors and computer generated personas, part of the plot to trick the world. > If you think you’ve ever been to Australia, you’re terribly wrong. The plane pilots are all in on this, and have in all actuality only flown you to islands close nearby – or in some cases, parts of South America, where they have cleared space and hired actors to act out as real Australians. > > Australia is one of the biggest hoaxes ever created, and you have all been tricked. Join the movement today, and make it known that they have been deceived. Make it known, that this has all just been a cover-up. The things these “Australian” says to be doing, all these swear words and actions based on alcoholism, MDMA and bad decisions, are all ways to distract you from the ugly truth that is one of the greatest genocides in history. 162,000 people was said to have been transported to this imaginary land during a mere 80 years, and they are all long dead by now. They never reached that promised land. > > Tell the truth. Stand up for what is right. Make sure to spread the world – Australia is not real. It’s a codeword for the cold blooded murder of more than a hundred thousand people, and it is not okay. We will not, accept this. > > Stand up for the ones who died. Let it be known, that Australia does not exist.\* > > There are some on this board who claim to be antipodeans: what are you guys playing at? She said she made the whole thing up as a joke. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/158 "2018-05-02T05:56:55Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Recently, I read of a guy who triumphantly proved that the Earth is flat by taking a carpenter’s level on a plane flight to show that cruising was always level: if the Earth were not flat, the pilot would have to keep changing the attitude (dip the nose) to adjust for the curvature, which should show up on the level. > > Now that you have finished cleaning beverages from you screen/keyboard, what I want to know is “so what?” For a picosecond, imagine that the FEs were correct, that the Earth is indeed some sort of flat thing: what then? What do they hope to gain or change by proving a flat Earth? Does turtle soup become a sin? I mean, I am just not understanding the why. He’s just too frivolous. Doesn’t comprehend the gravity of the situation. 😉 Seriously though, they are nothing but liars or mentally incompetent. There’s nothing to argue. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/159 "2018-05-02T06:42:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos would [beg to differ](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-schlarmann/betsy-devos-orders-immediate-flattening-of-all-school-globes_b_14639376.html) with us. I really wish places that weren’t the Onion stop writing these fake onion pieces. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748/160 "2018-05-02T08:31:15Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Based on posts in this (and other) threads, it’s clear that a good number of dopers believe many Flat Earthers are biblical literalists. > > But I met a FEer (quite some loong time ago) who scoffed at this, and held it up as proof of how deluded FE deniers are. He claimed it derived from easily observed “evidence”, to which the Bible has almost nothing to contribute. > > So I ask whether it’s true that there’s substantial overlap between biblical literalists and FEers, or not? Well I haven’t met many flat-earthers, but from what I’ve seen online most of them are not YECs (and I’m just talking the ones that seem sincere in their beliefs, not the obvious trolls). I think it’s simply this: the earth looks flat, and static. Intuitively, it looks flat, and it’s kinda weird imagining being on a spinning, moving sphere. Let alone that it’s arbitrary whether you consider your location now to be at the “top” or “bottom” of the sphere. So it cuts to the heart of how we know things and why and when we should trust authority. I really think instead of talking about spirit levels and ships on the horizon, the only way to get to flat-eathers is to explain doubt, and skepticism and the scientific method. _Why_ we have confidence in some models, and reject others, and the fact that reality is often counter-intuitive. Having said that, if I actually met a flat-earther I wouldn’t be able to resist some basic questions like “Is the earth itself falling?” “Does the earth lose any material (e.g. water) from things falling off the edge (or clouds drifting beyond the edge)?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-point-to-flat-earth/787748.md?page=9)