# What is the probability that Trump is a traitor? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 28, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380 "2017-01-28T07:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/41 "2017-01-29T11:51:29Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The possibility, or rather probabilty, does not exist outside liberal heads. They will spend the next four, or even eight, years clutching at every straw to blacken President Trump. It won’t work, even with the media aiding and abetting them. Eh, no. There is a small club of crackpot conservatives who (think they) see a rather ornate conspiracy involving Russian-American mobsters, Ed Snowden, J. Assange, Ecuador, Jeff Sessions, Rudy Giuliani, and yet-unknown players inside NSA. I was just reading [https://patribotics.wordpress.com/](https://patribotics.wordpress.com/) , and it’s a bit like something in _Illuminatus!_ ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/42 "2017-01-29T14:54:51Z")
Been very quiet on the Russia/Trump investigation front lately. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/43 "2017-01-29T16:49:32Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Been very quiet on the Russia/Trump investigation front lately. [Making noise may be unhealthy](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/27/mystery-death-ex-kgb-chief-linked-mi6-spys-dossier-donald-trump/). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/44 "2017-01-29T18:39:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > No, I’m not. I believe in giving credit where credit is due. That comment just demonstrates your blind hatred. I hate that show for reasons unrelated to politics. I’d rather watch Engery Secretary Perry dance with stars. (Actually, I wouldn’t) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/45 "2017-01-29T20:17:12Z")
Being a traitor and committing the crime of treason aren’t the same thing. Trump is obviously a traitor to all the principles our country was founded upon. Whether that is in part because of Russia, I don’t know. I do think he’s more likely a “useful idiot” than a conspirator, for the reasons stated above. Trump likes anyone who strokes his ego, and hates anyone who doesn’t. Personality disorders often exist together, and that’s the borderline personality disorder part. Idealization and devaluation. Still, he’s clearly making decisions with his monetary interests in mind. All Putin has to do is make Trump think he’ll make money. I am so hoping that Trump will result in a lot of laws. We need mandatory psych evaluations and divesting of any monetary interests. And fuck the psychologists who decided they had to stay mum. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/46 "2017-01-30T09:51:30Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Since you ask, you might consider his TV series, The Apprentice. He has provided pleasure and amusement to millions and opportunities to those who might otherwise have not had them. You’re right, Trump is the messiah. Gawd, how did I miss that, 1 fucking redeeming factor, and a really, really weak one at that, for Trump. Well, that mitigates all the bigotry, perversion, phobias’ and lying the bastard does. I feel better already. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/47 "2017-01-30T17:57:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You’re right, Trump is the messiah. Gawd, how did I miss that, 1 fucking redeeming factor, and a really, really weak one at that, for Trump. Well, that mitigates all the bigotry, perversion, phobias’ and lying the bastard does. I feel better already. I thought that show sucked ass. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/48 "2018-02-01T16:26:19Z")
One year later, have you changed your minds? It certainly has not changed mine. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/49 "2018-02-01T16:30:53Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Trump hasn’t had time to commit treason yet since he really hasn’t taken any direct action whats-so-ever internationally, and I doubt that he has a had the opportunity to leak national secrets to the Russians. I know it’s hard to remember all the nonsense, but we already know for a fact that he [leaked national secrets to Russians](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.53c77a97354f). (On edit, didn’t realize this was a zombie. Statement still true, but not your fault that you couldn’t see into the future!) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/50 "2018-02-01T17:12:04Z")
I’ve looked at it this way from the beginning of this presidency. If you were a Russian Tool and your intent was to weaken the United States, what would you do as President? Insult our allies and weaken our alliances Insult other nations and weaken our image Ignore Russian espionage and election interference Refuse to implement sanctions against Russia Severely weaken the State Department. Undermine the Rule of Law. Cancel trade agreements, undermining the US Economy. Start trade wars, potentially crippling the US Economy. Aid and Abet the Republican desire for tax cuts at all cost, ignoring the deficit. and on and on and on. Putin must do the Dance of Joy every day at what Trump is doing to help him. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/51 "2018-02-01T17:17:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I’ve looked at it this way from the beginning of this presidency. > > If you were a Russian Tool and your intent was to weaken the United States, what would you do as President? > > Insult our allies and weaken our alliances > Insult other nations and weaken our image > Ignore Russian espionage and election interference > Refuse to implement sanctions against Russia > Severely weaken the State Department. > Undermine the Rule of Law. > Cancel trade agreements, undermining the US Economy. > Start trade wars, potentially crippling the US Economy. > Aid and Abet the Republican desire for tax cuts at all cost, ignoring the deficit. > > and on and on and on. > > Putin must do the Dance of Joy every day at what Trump is doing to help him. Yep. We’re left with two choices, “useful idiot”or, in the words of his Secretary of State, “fucking moron.” Personally, I see a bit of both. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/52 "2018-02-01T17:23:49Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Since you ask, you might consider his TV series, The Apprentice. He has provided pleasure and amusement to millions and opportunities to those who might otherwise have not had them. I agree. Morons, drooling idiots, and other Trumpies need entertainment too. You can’t expect them to exist solely on a diet of _Hannity_, _Honey Boo Boo_ and _Duck Dynasty_. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/53 "2018-02-01T17:27:31Z")
Turmp is a Russian agent. How willing and how knowing is still being discovered. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/54 "2018-02-01T17:34:10Z")
Considering that he’s quite literally received hundreds of millions of dollars in dark money\* from the Russians, there’s little doubt in my mind - Condos purchased with CASH by Russian Oligarchs for far more than they would sell on the regular market. But honestly, I think that’s going to be his downfall. He’s going to go down for money laundering. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/55 "2018-02-01T17:34:26Z")
It’s a good time to reflect on the big picture, because not everything was known a year ago when this thread started. It’s quite apparent that there was some communication between the Trump campaign and the Russians who hacked the DNC email servers, because the Trump people always seemed to know when the new bombshell was about to be dropped. This happened again and again with Roger Stone, Rudy Giuliani, and others. We don’t know if that communication was just the Russians tipping off the Trump people that it was coming, or if there was some quid pro quo. We do know, however, that the Trump team stepping in at the convention to soften the Republican stance on Russia regarding the Ukraine was very suspicious. If it was just tipping off, then the Trump team clearly should have reported it to the FBI, but they didn’t. If there was a quid pro quo, that’s the common definition of treason. At a minimum, highly inappropriate, and possibly impeachable and with jail time. We also know that the Trump team (Don Jr in particular) was EAGER to work with the Russians to influence the election. I’m not sure whether there’s already a law on the books to make this criminal, but it’s certainly enough that he should be shunned by civilized society. We also know that Trump and the rest of his team initially and repeatedly said there was no communication with Russians, and we now know that they lied, again and again. That is very, very suspicious. So we have, at a minimum, several pieces of behavior that’s highly inappropriate. And we have tons of smoke pointing to what I would call treason (although as defined in the Constitution it would have to be in a time of war). ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/56 "2018-02-01T17:51:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I am so hoping that Trump will result in a lot of laws. I expect that after the government is once again in the hands of patriotic citizens, quite a few laws will be passed to specifically prohibit various things that were Simply Not Done until Putin’s Puppet went ahead and did them. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/57 "2018-02-01T18:08:24Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Turmp is a Russian agent. How willing and how knowing is still being discovered. This is where I am. There was quid, there was quo. There was willingness for pro. Whether that pro is explicit or just happened to occur because both parties had a common goal to elect Trump remains to be seen, but more likely than not, there were explicit agreements made. Too many coincidences. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/58 "2018-02-01T19:42:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course Trump is beholden to Putin-- I didn’t realize there was even any dispute on that subject. But that doesn’t meet the definition of “treason”. Whose definition are you using? If you mean the Constitutional definition, no, it does not. If you mean the definition in my dictionary, the one generally meant in conversational English, there is a very significant chance he’s a traitor - I wouldn’t put even money on it, but maybe at two to one. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/59 "2018-02-01T20:03:33Z")
As others, no doubt, have said, if he isn’t a traitor, why is he acting like one? - Many hush-hush meetings with Russian officials, including Putin. (Announced afterward by the Russians) - Inviting banned Russian intelligence officials to Washington - Not imposing sanctions, even though Trump signed the bill that was overwhelmingly supported in Congress. - The Trump Tower meeting. - The Trump Tower direct line to the Russian bank. - Money laundering for Russian oligarchs. - Obstructing the FBI and Mueller investigations at every turn. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380/60 "2018-02-01T20:11:30Z")
A year later, and still nothing. Imagine my surprise. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-probability-that-trump-is-a-traitor/778380.md?page=4)