# What is the psychology behind the right wing fear of disenfranchisement
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [March 16, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111 "2013-03-16T19:12:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/21 "2013-03-19T23:13:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#):
>
> Just out of curiosity have you actually seen “Piss Christ”? Its not an anti-Christian work. In fact I could probably go to a church picnic with a the artwork printed on a t-shirt and get complements for how spiritual it is, provided I didn’t tell them what it was.
Maybe it’s not, but I could say that whenever statistics are brought up that make the African-American communities look violent and criminal that I am not being racist but I can count on many left wingers to label me as such. I can also say that most Muslims are not terrorists but currently most terrorists are Muslims. Count on me being called a religious bigot. However what I said true. NOW, let’s reverse it. Let’s say that a left winger says “Well maybe most Catholic priests are not pedophiles, but a very large amount of pedophiles are Catholic priests.” The left winger would be stating a fact just like I STATED SOME FACTS in the above examples. Does this make the left winger a hater or an anti-Catholic bigot? I don’t necessarily believe that it does, however in the interest of being consistent then let’s STOP labeling conservatives as “racists” and “religious bigots” whenever we point out some inconvenient but unpleasant facts about OTHER GROUPS. That in a nutshell is why so many on the right feel “persecuted” so to speak: because if the left wingers were truly consistent and as “fair” as so many of them try to present themselves, then they TOO should behave that way instead of resorting to cheap name-calling. This is not that different from what Senator McCarthy did when people disagreed with him only instead of him calling people “pinkos” and “reds” and “commie sympathizers” I hear the left using terms like “Racist” “Hater” and “Religious Bigots.”
As for the “Piss Christ” --perhaps the artist did not intend to be anti-Christian. SO what exactly was he trying to say, and did he honestly believe that taking Catholic icon such as a crucifix and putting it in urine was actually going to make the Christian community jump for joy? Be realistic! What was the artist’s intention? And again if the same sponsors of this artist wish to be so “cutting edge” then let’s see those infamous cartoons from Denmark PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED and let’s hear the ACLU and the NEA do their best to make sure that the cartoons ARE displayed!
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### Author:  [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/22 "2013-03-19T23:14:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> This is a whoosh, right?
>
> And this has **got** to be a whoosh, right?
Forgive me I am unfamiliar with this term “Whoosh” but if you are asking if I was being serious, then yes I was. Wesley Clark was kind enough to acknowledge my point and why many of us conservatives often feel the way that we do.
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### Author:  [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/23 "2013-03-19T23:18:37Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> In that regard yeah, you have a point. The left generally only opposes ridicule of groups who are oppressed, but groups tied to authority or tradition are fair game, if not actively sought out as targets to be brought down (the left is generally anti-tradition and anti-authority while the right is pro- those things, generally speaking). So you can ridicule christians, but not jews. Making fun of whites is ok, but not making fun of blacks. etc. etc.
Thank you for the acknowledgement; that is exactly my point. I find it difficult to take left wingers seriously when bad behavior by minorities is not made into a national issue. For example, the Martin/Zimmerman case has been made into a national outrage by the national and yes mainstream media. HOWEVER, the Bailey O’Neill murder story, although it has been reported, has NOT been made into the national outrage by the media that the Trayvon Martin shooting has. Defenders of Zimmerman are often labeled as “racists” yet those who condemn the two black bullies who beat Bailey O’Neill to death are often called “racists” as well. Sorry, but you can’t have it both ways.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/24 "2013-03-19T23:44:52Z")
You’re all completely wrong. All of you.
Fear of disenfranchisement comes from nothing more nor less than fear. That’s it. It’s the fact that the most conservative among us know that they are losing the political discussion.
Women’s rights : expanded
Minority rights : expanded
Same sex marriage : perilously close to being acknowledged at a national level
Religion : falling off in participation
All of those things, things to which they are traditionally opposed, are coming to pass. That makes the feel they their hold on political power, cultural power, social power leaving them and heading out to something they don’t understand. They fear disenfrancisement because they are, indeed, being disenfranchised.
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### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/25 "2013-03-19T23:46:06Z")
Maybe they just want to disenfranchise others before they are disenfranchised by them, a sort of pre-emptive disenfranchisement, if you will
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### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/26 "2013-03-19T23:59:23Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> All of those things, things to which they are traditionally opposed, are coming to pass. That makes the feel they their hold on political power, cultural power, social power leaving them and heading out to something they don’t understand. They fear disenfrancisement because they are, indeed, being disenfranchised.
That sounds like a legitimate reason to be fearful to me. I am not a right-winger but I was raised in an area that has plenty of them and some of them are dear friends and family. I do have sympathy when in comes to differences in outlook based on where you live in the U.S. Manhattan isn’t rural Iowa and Massachusetts isn’t Louisiana. The urbanization of America has led to a decline in understanding of the more traditional American lifestyles that used to encompass a wider percentage of the population than it does do today. The U.S. isn’t like that and will not be in our lifetime. There is still a place for rural areas and small towns where traditional values make the crops get to market on time.
I think both sides are at fault here in a huge ways. Right-wingers can be intolerant to groups of people that they claim to not know (even though almost all of them do know personal examples) like gays and their rights as individuals. Left-wingers seem to think the whole nation should be nothing but dense cities with a few organic farms sprinkled somewhere in the hinterlands that they may take a tour of sometime on a retreat.
You are looking at a growing cultural divide. I think the right-wingers are already giving up ground on that. It is the left that seems at least as dense on the gap and the way true tolerance should work.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/27 "2013-03-20T00:07:23Z")
It’s the Golden Rule coming back to roost: they’ve been treating people the way they expect to be treated by them, and now they’re afraid that’s going to happen. With any luck, they’re wrong.
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### Author:  [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/28 "2013-03-20T01:18:16Z")
I think the psychology is often very simple–white, male, non-Jewish/Catholic/Muslim, middle-class (or those who feel they should by rights be middle-class) people had it pretty much all their own way not all that long ago, and believed they were entitled to it. if one falls into those categories there’s a tendency to feel that something has been unfairly taken from you whenever someone else claims a piece of the pie
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### Author:  [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/29 "2013-03-20T01:29:27Z")
> [@chappachula](#):
>
> I’m guessing that it’s just fear of change. It’s a normal human reaction.
> When the future looks uncertain and likely to be very different than the comfortable world you’ve been living in for the most of your life, you get scared.
>
> Right now, it’s the conservatives who are scared.
> Not so long ago, it was the liberals. Remember a movie director named Michael Moore?
>
> And when you’re scared, you blame all those scary-looking “other” people. You start by blaming the people who look and act different from you, and then expand the blame to people who are organized into groups that think differently than you.
>
> Ever since the 1960’s, both sides have been convinced that they are losing.
> Right wingers are scared that social values of foreigners and “secular humanism” will destroy our society.
> Left wingers are scared that rednecks and fundamentalist Christians will do the same.
>
> But somehow life goes on for everybody.
>
> (It’s a pity that when color television was invented, some newsman decided to paint the map on election night with red and blue states. In the old days of black-and white TV, elections weren’t as scary. 🙂 )
This. It isnt unique to humans who are conservative, its a frame of mind that affects people of all persuasions, liberals and conservatives alike.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/30 "2013-03-20T01:51:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> No, I hear it. They don’t use the term disenfranchisement, but the mentality is there.
>
> They are taking our guns away
> Southern culture is under attack
> Intellectuals and Hollywood are indoctrinating our kids
> ACORN steals the elections
> Feminazis want to emasculate men
> Reverse racism
> The media is biased against us
> etc.
>
> Which is ironic because like I said, they are the ones engaging in actual disenfranchisement and I don’t get it. Some of the same people who claim Christians are under assault wanted to stop muslims from building a community center near ground zero. The people who complain about reverse racism support laws making it harder for non-whites to vote. etc.
None of those things you listed equates to disenfranchisement.
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### Author:  [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/31 "2013-03-20T13:44:08Z")
Paranoia is usually my first clue that I’m talking to a a loon/wingnut and not merely an opinionated person. They tend to hint at grand collusion, conspiracy or whatnot and these are normally my first red flags (other clues are foreboding doom, purism, scapegoating, obsessiveness, etc).
I’m not sure you can generalize these qualities to the American right, but I think I know **exactly** the type the OP is talking about…
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### Author:  [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/32 "2013-03-20T18:53:32Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#):
>
> I’m a right winger and due to present time constraints, allow me to offer this. Perhaps we feel paranoid in the same way that left wingers feel paranoid when someone makes a truthful remark about minorities and then all of a sudden the person making that remark is immediately labeled as a “racist” or a “bigot” or a “hater.” FYI—it’s rather difficult for Christians such as myself to not feel persecuted due to examples like this: The National Endowment For The Arts has given tax dollars to artists who produce “works of art” such as the “Piss Christ” or a toilet with Jesus’ face on it. I dare the NEA to commission somebody to reproduce those cartoons of Mohammed with bombs beneath his turban to be displayed in any art gallery in New York City. Also I highly doubt that another work of “art” let’s say hypothetically that played on every racial stereotype of Blacks and Jews would get the green light from the NEA, and furthermore I wouldn’t be surprised if there were protests and outrage from the offended parties that many on the Left would feel is justified if such an piece of “artwork” did happen to get displayed, yet when Christians complain of such treatment, well then according to many on the left, we just feel unnecessarily “persecuted.”
Whether _Piss Christ_ by Andres Serrano is anti-Christian is an arguable point. What the vast majority of conservatives get wrong when they use this as their “anti-Christian” poster boy is that the NEA did not commission the piece. They did not reward Serrano for the piece. They had no say at all in the piece.
What the NEA did was sponsor a contest by a regional art center which happened to select _Piss Christ_ as the contest winner. The NEA had no say in who won the contest or even in the criteria used to determine the winner - though I’m sure if you looked at the criteria, nowhere did it say “most cutting edge in your face anti-Christian art possible!”. The previous year, the year _before_ Seranno created _Piss Christ_, the NEA awarded him $5000, but that was for previous work he’d done, and I can’t find any works of an anti-Christian nature before 1987.
So, no. The government is not persecuting you by paying artists to denigrate the icons of your belief. _Piss Christ_ has been the whipping boy of the conservative movement for 25 years now, but there’s no there actually there.
For the record, Serrano has stated that his intent in _Piss Christ_ was not to denounce religion - he’s an observant Roman Catholic - but to allude to the commercialization and cheapening of Christian icons. Personally, I think his works are poorly thought out and hold no interest beyond the initial shock of taboo subjects and portrayals. His portraiture is kitschy, without any insight, and show only mediocre execution.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/33 "2013-03-20T20:23:15Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#):
>
> That sounds like a legitimate reason to be fearful to me.
Oh, I agree. They DO have a lot to be fearful of. But the response to social change should be an attempt to work against through the system, not an attempt to game the system to ensure your position for another 10 years. That sort of short-term thinking will only make it harder when change does come.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/34 "2013-03-21T00:11:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> None of those things you listed equates to disenfranchisement.
But they do mention it, in their idea that they need to get voter IDs to stop all this rampant fraud, rather than accepting that there are fewer people who agree with them.
It is partly human nature, and partly the echo chambers, which also exist because of human nature.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/35 "2013-03-21T02:24:09Z")
How about we clear up the meaning (in this thread) of “disenfranchised”. I think of it as pretty much exclusively referring to voting rights, but a dictionary definition says it can refer to _any_ right being taken away.
Which is it?
If the former, I agree with **Shagnasty** that I’ve never heard anyone on the right claim this, though I do hear complaints that their votes are being diluted by lots of illegal voting by ineligible voters.
If the latter, I agree with **Jonathan Chance**. Their rights and privileges, in some cases at least, are in fact being threatened and taken away, IMO for good reason, but that’s perhaps another thread.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/36 "2013-03-21T02:29:29Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> But they do mention it, in their idea that they need to get voter IDs to stop all this rampant fraud, rather than accepting that there are fewer people who agree with them.
And that also is not disenfranchisement. But if you think that “they mention it”, can we see some quotes? Something substantial form prominent members of the right, since you can always find some whack-job saying almost anything on the internet.
Still, I’d prefer the OP answer my question.
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### Author:  [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)
#### Post date: [March 22, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/37 "2013-03-22T18:53:13Z")
> [@phouka](#):
>
> For the record, Serrano has stated that his intent in _Piss Christ_ was not to denounce religion - he’s an observant Roman Catholic - but to allude to the commercialization and cheapening of Christian icons. Personally, I think his works are poorly thought out and hold no interest beyond the initial shock of taboo subjects and portrayals.
My take is that _Piss Christ_ says something about the difference the symbolic and the substantive. Jesus didn’t get any urine on him (and urine is fairly harmless anyway).
I always posit 2 questions on this topic: What if Serrano never told anyone there was urine involved and didn’t call it “Piss” Christ? What if he’s lying and it wasn’t really urine?
There’s nothing but harmless symbols involved and yet the work became this massively powerful political meme.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/38 "2013-03-23T17:17:05Z")
> [@sqweels](#):
>
> I always posit 2 questions on this topic: What if Serrano never told anyone there was urine involved and didn’t call it “Piss” Christ? What if he’s lying and it wasn’t really urine?
What if it’s, you know, the piss **of** Christ? Would that be a holy relic?
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/39 "2013-03-23T17:18:56Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#):
>
> Forgive me I am unfamiliar with this term “Whoosh” but if you are asking if I was being serious, then yes I was. Wesley Clark was kind enough to acknowledge my point and why many of us conservatives often feel the way that we do.
What exactly do you mean by “a truthful remark about minorities”? Examples?
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-psychology-behind-the-right-wing-fear-of-disenfranchisement/653111/40 "2013-03-23T20:20:11Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#):
>
> Maybe it’s not, but I could say that whenever statistics are brought up that make the African-American communities look violent and criminal that I am not being racist but I can count on many left wingers to label me as such. I can also say that most Muslims are not terrorists but currently most terrorists are Muslims. Count on me being called a religious bigot. However what I said true. NOW, let’s reverse it. Let’s say that a left winger says “Well maybe most Catholic priests are not pedophiles, but a very large amount of pedophiles are Catholic priests.” The left winger would be stating a fact just like I STATED SOME FACTS in the above examples. Does this make the left winger a hater or an anti-Catholic bigot? I don’t necessarily believe that it does, however in the interest of being consistent then let’s STOP labeling conservatives as “racists” and “religious bigots” whenever we point out some inconvenient but unpleasant facts about OTHER GROUPS.
I don’t know that I’ve ever seen someone called a racist simply for pointing out that a large percentage of terrorists in the world are Muslim. Then again, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen someone “simply” point out that fact. Usually, it’s either brought up in a context that has nothing to do with terrorism, or to lay the ground work for an argument that is, in fact, racist.
> [@](#):
>
> As for the “Piss Christ” --perhaps the artist did not intend to be anti-Christian. SO what exactly was he trying to say, and did he honestly believe that taking Catholic icon such as a crucifix and putting it in urine was actually going to make the Christian community jump for joy?
I very seriously doubt Andres Serrano ever expected “the Christian community” to ever _see_ any of his work, and they never would have, if not for the efforts of right-wing demagogues. I suspect he never thought that anyone who didn’t have a pretty passionate interest in post-modern art and obsessive deconstruction would pay attention to his work. When approached with those specific tools, it’s pretty easy to construct an explanation for the photo that’s decidedly pro-Christian.
[Or you could ask this nun.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9pAKdkJh-Y#t=1m10s)
> [@](#):
>
> And again if the same sponsors of this artist wish to be so “cutting edge” then let’s see those infamous cartoons from Denmark PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED and let’s hear the ACLU and the NEA do their best to make sure that the cartoons ARE displayed!
The ACLU doesn’t generally set up art shows. If someone did set up an art show in the US featuring those cartoons, and the government tried to interfere, I’m fairly certain the ACLU would be on the front lines, making sure the exhibit stayed open.
As for the NEA, well, you’ve got a few problems there. First of all, there’s the fact that (as previously pointed out) they never promoted or funded _Piss Christ_. Secondly, even if they’d directly commissioned the work, you’re talking about a photograph that was taken in _1987_. If the only evidence you have of the NEA’s anti-Christian bias is something that happened nearly thirty years ago, you don’t have much of an argument. Thirdly, the Denmark cartoons are hardly “cutting-edge.” They’re third-rate political cartoons. They’re sub-par even for a genre that’s largely defined by hackwork, and are only notable as political theater, not as art. And finally, you’re assuming that there’s the NEA has never funded or otherwise supported any artwork that could be interpreted as anti-Islamic. Forgive me if this sounds insulting, but you don’t strike me as a person with a particularly deep knowledge of the contemporary art world. If the NEA were funding an artist who created an Islamic version of _Piss Christ_, how highly do you rate the chances of you, personally, knowing about it?
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