# What is the purpose of corporations making employees fill out detailed expense reports? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 27, 2013, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900 "2013-11-27T07:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/21 "2013-11-27T19:27:26Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Years ago I had a similar situation. I’d sigh and explain to the waitress/bartender and she would offer to “take care of it”. Worked for me. I’ve had the same happen to me. Took some clients out for a round of golf and they insisted on going to Hooters afterwards. The receipt I turned in with my expense report showed all of the food we ordered and four pitchers of “iced tea.” Never had it questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/22 "2013-11-27T21:24:37Z")
> [@Shark\_Sandwich](#): > > I’ve had the same happen to me. Took some clients out for a round of golf and they insisted on going to Hooters afterwards. The receipt I turned in with my expense report showed all of the food we ordered and four pitchers of “iced tea.” Never had it questioned. Is _that_ what they call lap dances these days? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/23 "2013-11-27T21:33:00Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > We use to get a per-diem in cash. I could spend it on anything I want. Put it in my savings account and brown bad it. What ever. > > Now I have a company card. Alcohol is forbotten. A beer or glass of wine with dinner? I have to put it on a separate check. It’s kind of embarrassing. I’ve had various company cards for ages, and none of them showed that level of detail. If you were charging at a bar that’s one thing. Or does it show up on the receipt? (The credit card receipts I get don’t show this, and that is all we have to turn in.) Now we’re allowed alcohol, so maybe your card has an Izzy and Moe snitch feature. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/24 "2013-11-27T21:36:12Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > When I travel I get a per diem for meals and expenses. If I want to eat at McDonalds and pocket the extra, so be it. I’ve traveled in previous jobs where every single receipt was required, and it’s a colossal waste of time after you get back to have to sort through everything. With a meal per diem all I need to worry about is my hotel, rental car, gasoline, and airline ticket. I can fire off an expense report in an hour, max. I think this is better for everyone involved and saves hours of productivity for at least 3 people. That’s great for some situations, but not so hot if you want a decent meal and are in a high cost area - or are in a hotel during a snowstorm and don’t want to trudge down the street. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/25 "2013-11-27T21:44:30Z")
Not so much for food, but for hotels big companies have contracts, and keeping track of the spend with the hotel helps negotiate better rates. One advantage of eating in a hotel dining room is that if you charge your meal to your room it shows up on your hotel bill, so only one thing to scan. We book air travel through our corporate travel office, and that never even shows up. These days I only go to conferences where I go to enough meetings and parties with food so I never actually have to pay for any. Back in 1980 when I started in the Bell System we did not have a corporate card, and you were not allowed to use a personal card, so you got a cash advance for everything. Airfare and rental cars were direct bills, but hotels were a pain. Thus one response from the Bell Labs fortune(1) UNIX command: “A journey of a thousand miles starts with a cash advance from Sam.” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/26 "2013-11-27T21:50:00Z")
When I was travelling for Accenture, they gave me a company card for plane, car & hotel rental. They also gave me a choice of per diem: $25 a day if I rented a room without a kitchen, or $35 a day if I rented one with a kitchen. I rented rooms with a kitchen and ate at Wendy’s. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/27 "2013-11-28T01:01:06Z")
In Australia it’s about fringe benefits tax plus making sure people don’t steal or overspend. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/28 "2013-11-28T04:11:38Z")
Back in the old days, when mountains were in beta I had to travel for work. I started by copying a ream of expense paperwork - I made forms that had headings of name, the specific trip I was on then blanks for the information the bean counters needed and tossed them into a briefcase with a couple of things of double sticky tape. As I got a receipt I would fill in the formlet, tape the receipt to the paper and put it on the bottom of the stack of blank forms. When I got home, they were all there and ready to play fill in the blanks on the company official bean counter form. Then I just handed in the whole stack and let them deal with it. I never worried about drinking, because in general I didn’t drink - a single female trying to get a drink in a hotel bar is fair game for sexual assault. I can’t tell you the number of times I got groped while just sitting alone in a bar/restaurant in a hotel. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/29 "2013-11-28T04:46:13Z")
Sheesh, I work for a global fortune 50. We have to have receipts when my individual meals exceed $70/day (entertainment is separate). One of the corporate bigwigs explained at a customer meeting that after doing itemized expenses and keeping receipts, the IRS finally explained for under $70, you don’t need any of this. Anyhoo, that’s what we do. I still have to fill out a form and say breakfast, denny’s $15, lunch sushi joe’s $25, dinner room service $30 and good to go. When I worked at Lehman Brothers for a year in 1996, I never once filled out an expense form. Just put it on the corporate Amex and that was it. Seriously, business trip to NY for 2 weeks. Nothing. And the corporate Amex meant it was Lehman’s and not me as the responsible party… ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/30 "2013-11-28T13:23:35Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > If you want the details from a tax law perspective, you want to look up the requirements for an “accountable plan” for reimbursements. There are reams of tax law about this - the IRS just recently released about 250 pages of updates to clarify that many of the shadier practices in the reimbursement world are not valid accountable plans. > > Basically, the IRS requires that companies have documentation from the employee that establishes the amount of the expense and the business purpose for the expense. The company then must pay the amount documented and the employee must agree to repay to the company any excess reimbursement. > > If a company doesn’t see this documentation, then they are required by law to include the reimbursement as part of your gross pay, making it subject to FICA tax and to income tax. Many employees don’t even realize this - if they have $500/month “travel allowance” from their employer, they just paid 7.6% in FICA tax and perhaps 15 or 25% in income tax on that $500 allowance. Can you verify whether the receipt requirement threshold is $5 or $25? That would seem to streamline the process significantly if employers knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/31 "2013-11-28T15:35:31Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That’s great for some situations, but not so hot if you want a decent meal and are in a high cost area - or are in a hotel during a snowstorm and don’t want to trudge down the street. 90 bucks a day is sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/32 "2013-11-29T10:23:48Z")
You all still have to send in copies of the receipts? My company card imports my charges into tracking software. All I have to do is pick a category for each charge, and add a list of anyone else involved. Easy. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/33 "2013-11-29T16:13:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > That’s great for some situations, but not so hot if you want a decent meal and are in a high cost area - or are in a hotel during a snowstorm and don’t want to trudge down the street. I get a per diem equal to the federal government rate - which ranges from $46 to $71 dollars per day. Even in Manhattan ($71), that’s enough for decent meals- possibly not enough for room service, but certainly enough for delivery. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/34 "2013-12-02T04:13:10Z")
Its control, pure and simple. The minute that they can get you to buy that stupidity has the right to manage intelligence with a straight face, you’re DONE. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/35 "2013-12-02T04:19:49Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I thought it was $25. It’s $75. (ETA: I suppose I should provide a [cite.](http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch05.html) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/36 "2013-12-02T13:45:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It’s $75. (ETA: I suppose I should provide a [cite.](http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch05.html) Yes, my company requires receipts for anything over $75, but they _want_ receipts for everything, if you have them. But they won’t cause much of a ruckus if you forget to get one for the six bucks you spent at Burger King. > [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Its control, pure and simple. The minute that they can get you to buy that stupidity has the right to manage intelligence with a straight face, you’re DONE. wut ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/37 "2013-12-02T15:27:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It’s $75. (ETA: I suppose I should provide a [cite.](http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch05.html) As long as you have the right cover sheet for the form. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/38 "2013-12-02T15:42:15Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > wut Withdrawn. Note to self: never post in a business thread after interacting with [del]micro-[/del]management. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/39 "2013-12-02T15:53:11Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Its control, pure and simple. The minute that they can get you to buy that stupidity has the right to manage intelligence with a straight face, you’re DONE. Yeah, well…I guess you never managed a sales department. 😃 Seriously though, much of expense reporting is about “control”. That’s why they call the person who exerts oversight over use of company funds a “controller”. It’s to control that you don’t spend company money on shit you ain’t supposed to. [Like this guy.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/expense-report-abuse-strip-clubs-haircuts_n_2037963.html) You think filling out the expense reports is a PITA. Try managing multiple teams of traveling consultants, each with different clients with different expense policies. Per diem vs actuals. Billable vs nonbillable. Receipts mandatory vs mandatory above some cutoff. Personal card vs corporate. Exchange rates. Plus all the inane questions I get… “No, you can’t expense your long distance calls to the client because the company already reimburses your personal phone.” “I don’t know if you can expense your Metrocard between the office and a client in Midtown because it’s never come up because everyone here has an unlimited Metrocard makes over $100 k a year so they don’t sweat a $2.50 subway trip” Managing timesheets and expenses is my least favorite part of my job. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900/40 "2013-12-02T17:46:58Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Can you verify whether the receipt requirement threshold is $5 or $25? That would seem to streamline the process significantly if employers knew that. There’s no single threshold set by the IRS - the threshold depends on the activity. For travel out of town, for example, companies are allowed to reimburse at a per diem rate rather than actual expenses. This is where the $25/$75 idea comes from - since these are both lower than the typical per diem rates ($170 or $250 depending on locality right now), the companies choose the limit they’re willing to give employees. Companies set the limit lower than the IRS requirement because they don’t want employees staying at Motel 6 and asking for reimbursement for the Hilton. (Or the equivalent for food). With travel expenses, the most important element to substantiate is the business purpose of the travel. But entertainment and gifts both require direct documentation of the cost (and some other information as well). There’s no threshold allowed there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-purpose-of-corporations-making-employees-fill-out-detailed-expense-reports/674900.md?page=3)