# What is the relationship between Wales and England? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153 "2008-01-19T15:20:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/21 "2008-01-20T16:38:13Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] Don’t forget the Cornish separatist movement. They’re scary, with their pasties, tin and what not. [/QUOTE] Incidentally, you should have mentioned clay. Biggest export for sometime now, as the Tin’s mostly gone. You joke, but in some ways the Cornish separatist movement has more support from the average person. Though it’s true that it’s 99% loonies who campaign for “Cornish Independance” a lot more people do agree that Cornwall gets overlooked and marginalised by the rest of the UK. The same sort of feelings that lead Scotland and Wales to campaign for their own assemblies. [QUOTE=Lust4Life] Apparently it is perfectly legal to kill a Welshman in the vicinity of Hereford Cathedral on a Sunday just so long as you use a bow and arrow. [/QUOTE] I’ve heard variations of that myth repeated many times over the years but I’ve yet to find any evidence that it was ever true, let alone true today. I’d love to know the context in which that idea sprung up. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/22 "2008-01-20T18:32:38Z")
Much of the stuffing was knocked out of the Welsh nationalist movement when the Welsh language was given official recognition and a Welsh language TV station was set up. That was all that most of the Welsh speakers wanted, really. Political devolution came a very distant second. The Welsh Assembly was set up after barely 50% of the Welsh electorate voted for it - compared to the situation in Scotland it was very unimpressive. ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/23 "2008-01-20T19:25:25Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] There’s a rather unpleasant anti-Welsh sentiment that I encounter in England, too. It’s along the lines of “I hate Welsh people” or “Welsh people are horrible”, based solely on ignorance and the fact that it’s not taboo to repeat the slur. [/QUOTE] Yes. That attitude ranks high on my “10 most annoying things about the English” list. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/24 "2008-01-20T22:14:38Z")
Irony. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/25 "2008-01-20T22:24:24Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] Irony. [/QUOTE] Ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/26 "2008-01-20T22:30:25Z")
[QUOTE=Vetch] Ignorance. [/QUOTE] Icthyosaurus. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/27 "2008-01-20T22:32:56Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Icthyosaurus. [/QUOTE] Ickenham ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/28 "2008-01-20T23:03:38Z")
Ichabod Crane ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/29 "2008-01-20T23:12:03Z")
[Iceland](http://www.iceland.co.uk/) ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/30 "2008-01-21T08:54:34Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] For Wales though I remember a campaign against English holiday homes in the '80s. [/QUOTE] Although its worth pointing out that a substantial number of the arson cases may actually have been insurance jobs. What better way to get rid of an overpriced holiday home than to torch it and blame it on taffy militants? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/31 "2008-01-21T09:15:36Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Ickenham [/QUOTE] Swiss Cottage! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/32 "2008-01-21T12:49:24Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Swiss Cottage! [/QUOTE] Cottage cheese ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/33 "2008-01-21T13:15:24Z")
[QUOTE=ShibbOleth] Cottage cheese [/QUOTE] Cheese Whiz! ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/34 "2008-01-21T13:23:41Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] Apparently it is perfectly legal to kill a Welshman in the vicinity of Hereford Cathedral on a Sunday just so long as you use a bow and arrow. [/QUOTE] A variation of this myth is that you can killed a priest with a bow and arrow from one of the towers in Trinity College Dublin on a specific day of the year. From what I can see all variations of this myth are complete bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/35 "2008-01-21T13:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Swiss Cottage! [/QUOTE] On a Tuesday not immediately following a Bank Holiday, and without the Duke of Leicester paradox in effect? I don’t think so. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/36 "2008-01-21T14:06:21Z")
> [@glee](#): > > It’s true in general that Scotland fought England. > However, for example, in this major battle: > > The Battle of Culloden, which took place on 16th April, 1746, is to this day surrounded by myths and inaccurate accounts. It was not a war between Scotland and England. [QUOTE=G. Odoreida] So why did you mention it in a thread about battles and wars between Scotland and England, when there are plenty of good examples you could have used? In a way you’ve needlessly perpetuated the very misconception you were trying to allay. [/QUOTE] My dear chap. :rolleyes: Please reread the OP, which mentions battles between Scotland and **Britain**. And the thread title mentions Wales. There is a popular misconception that a united Scotland fought the English. As my example shows, politics, religion and clan / family were just as likely to decide what side you fought on. And the fact that a Scottish King ruled a united Kingdom by the 1600s was also important. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/37 "2008-01-21T18:47:39Z")
[QUOTE=glee] My dear chap. :rolleyes: Please reread the OP, which mentions battles between Scotland and **Britain**. And the thread title mentions Wales. There is a popular misconception that a united Scotland fought the English. As my example shows, politics, religion and clan / family were just as likely to decide what side you fought on. And the fact that a Scottish King ruled a united Kingdom by the 1600s was also important. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Actually the OP mentions “Brits”; who are they? If you interpret the word to mean “Britain” then the question is erroneous since Scotland is part of Britain, Britain did not exist as a political entity until Scotland formed a union with England. The Scottish army has never fought the British army. Sure, groups from Scotland have sometimes fought the British army, but they did not represent Scotland, and no one in this thread was suggesting they did. Furthermore the thread title mentions Wales and **England** ; clearly the OP is confused enough to justify a number of interpretations. However, the OP did not demonstrate any confusion about the Battle of Culloden. You are right in saying that many people think wrongly that it was a battle between England and Scotland, but there was no example of that in this thread. Culloden was a battle between the government of Great Britain, represented by the British Army (your description of the government side as being “the House of Hanover” is as open to debate as anything in this thread), and a rebel army supporting the claim of the father of Charles Edward Stuart to the British throne. No army was representing Scotland, no army was representing England. Perhaps it wasn’t worth posting about, but my point was that by putting Culloden in the Scotland vs England context, your contribution has unnecessarily created confusion that previously did not exist in this thread. The points you make about Scotland not being united (has England or any other country ever been truly united when in war?) would be more relevant to your interpretation of the OP if you applied your knowledge and analysis to a battle such as Flodden or Stirling Bridge. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/38 "2008-01-21T21:31:13Z")
Furthermore: [QUOTE=glee] My dear chap. :rolleyes: Please reread the OP, which mentions battles between Scotland and **Britain**. [/QUOTE] Please reread your own freaking post, which mentions > [@](#): > > It’s true in general that Scotland fought England. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/39 "2008-01-22T03:02:40Z")
I might also helpfully point out that before the ascension of James VI / I, “British” referred to the Welsh (and presumably the Cornish, though I have no cite for that), specifically excluding the English. That usage has been supplanted by the current “British = inhabitant of Great Britain (English, Welsh, Scottish, Bengali, etc.),” and like some of the other posters I have heard a great number of people use “British” specifically to mean “English,” even people like the newsreaders on BBC Wales who ought to know better! And just to stir up the hornet’s nest, I can add that the Welsh (and Cornish) are [culturally] the aboriginal inhabitants of the island, so far as we can tell, with the Old Irish, Old English, and Old Norse speakers arriving in the historical period. I say “culturally” because, of course, genetic evidence suggests that the Brythonic Celts don’t have a lock on prehistoric British ancestry, and because the Celts all seem to have come from the continent, anyway, it’s just that no prior culture survives in any recognizable form. That’s not really a fact you can do anything with, but it does make the anti-immigration wing among the English BNP a bit more amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153/40 "2008-01-22T09:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] And just to stir up the hornet’s nest, I can add that the Welsh (and Cornish) are [culturally] the aboriginal inhabitants of the island, so far as we can tell, with the Old Irish, Old English, and Old Norse speakers arriving in the historical period. I say “culturally” because, of course, genetic evidence suggests that the Brythonic Celts don’t have a lock on prehistoric British ancestry, and because the Celts all seem to have come from the continent, anyway, it’s just that no prior culture survives in any recognizable form. [/QUOTE] That doesn’t make them the aboriginal inhabitants; merely the most recent invaders to have _completely_ exterminated their predecessors. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-relationship-between-wales-and-england/434153.md?page=3)