# What is the size of a county? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 9, 2002, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054 "2002-11-09T19:48:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/21 "2002-11-10T19:11:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*The only instance of the latter situtaion that I know of is [Jacksonville, FL](http://jpl.coj.net/html/Jobs/jaxfacts.html). In general, it is not the case that a single city takes up a whole county. \*\* Someone else mentioned San Francisco earlier, but I don’t know for sure. I think Denver City equals Denver County–although the metropolitan area is much bigger, it consists of a lot of suburbs, separate municipalities. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/22 "2002-11-10T19:35:07Z")
British political administration has changed significantly and frequently at the county level throughout its history. The most notable recent change was in 1974, when several boundaries were changed to abolish some ancient counties for administrative purposes and establish new ones – mostly to add a “county” level of government to certain big cities and the land around them. Due to local opposition to the 1974 change, some old counties such as Rutland and the East Riding of Yorkshire have been reinstated since then. [This link explains the recent history of the British counties](http://jonathan.rawle.org/counties/hist.htm) and contains clickable maps to show the county boundaries before 1974, 1974-98, and present. You will see that the sizes vary greatly, which is a matter of tradition rather than logic (small counties do not necessarily denote high population densities). _Government_ I apologise for this subject being so complicated; you may prefer not to read this part. All the counties are subdivided into smaller administrative _districts_, and the way the counties and districts are governed varies from place to place – mostly there are two tiers of local government but some places have a single council for several districts. Some of the counties (especially metropolitan ones) exist in name only – they are subdivided into _boroughs_, which themselves are divided into smaller districts. All these local administrations are elected councils with a mayor chosen by the councillors to act as the head of the council. Only London has a directly-elected authoritative mayor, although other larger cities are considering adopting that too. Northern Ireland consists of six counties, but I will say no more about them here because it is a politically sensitive issue and may turn into a rant. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/23 "2002-11-10T19:45:26Z")
The size and rectangular shape of many counties in states west of the Mississippi, was strongly influenced by the federal law of 1862, granting railroads public land to encourage connecting the coasts. . . "to the amount of five alternate sections per mile on each side of said railroad, on the line thereof, and within the limits of ten miles on each side of said road… " ---
**Author:** ![3waygeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e95f7d/32.png) [@3waygeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3waygeek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/24 "2002-11-10T21:10:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Simmons \* > \*\*When the land survey of Iowa was done the idea was to have counties that were 24 miles square. The land was divided into sections of one mile square. These sections were grouped into townships 6 sections (miles) on a side or 36 sections in all. And each country was to be 4 townships on a side making the county 24 miles square. > > If you check the map of Iowa, for example you will notice a lot of square counties, 24 miles on a side. On the east and west, of course this idea couldn’t be carried through because the Mississippi and Missouri rivers didn’t cooperate. > > As the other posters have said, each state decides what constitutes a country and its size and powers. \*\* As I was taught in Iowa History & Government in 7th grade (1975 or so), the counties were laid out that way to make it possible for anyone living in the county to make a round trip to the county seat in a day with a horse & wagon. In a rural state like Iowa, the county seat was usually where all the county’s commercial activity took place, so you’d have to go there to buy seed, sell crops, etc. It was also where you’d find the courts, tax assessor’s office, etc., so if you had any official business to attend to, that was the place to do it. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/25 "2002-11-10T23:14:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*Northern Ireland consists of six counties, but I will say no more about them here because it is a politically sensitive issue and may turn into a rant. \*\* I think we can keep it civil … and if _I_ can do so, anybody can 😉 Northern Ireland went through the same reforms as Britain did and is now divided into 26 districts, administrated by District Councils - previously the division had been the six counties plus the cities of Belfast and Derry. Counties are still used in postal addresses and in the Gaelic Athletic Association (which is an all-Ireland institution) but I’m not aware of any other cases in which they’re still used - irishgirl, Aro or Pushkin probably know of a few though. The situation is quite different here in the Republic of Ireland. Every county has a County Council, apart from Dublin which has three and Tipperary which has two. There are City, Borough and Town councils as well for the larger “urban” areas. [sub](I put “urban” in quotes because what qualifies as urban in this country would probably make most of you laugh).[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/26 "2002-11-10T23:16:49Z")
And yes, I do know that should be “administered” not “administrated” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/27 "2002-11-11T00:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RM Mentock \* > **Someone else mentioned San Francisco earlier, but I don’t know for sure. I think Denver City equals Denver County–** > [@](#): > > There are 3,069 county governments in the United States. Included in this figure [**31 city/county consolidated governments.**](http://www.naco.org/pubs/research/briefs/consol.cfm) New Orleans is the oldest dating back to 1805. Denver was consolidated in 1902. The most recent is Kansas City in 1997. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/28 "2002-11-11T12:46:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*New Orleans is the oldest dating back to 1805. Denver was consolidated in 1902. The most recent is Kansas City in 1997. \*\* Looks like the complete list, we (Durham, NC) will probably join it within the next ten years. And remember, that’s Kansas City, Kansas, not Kansas City, Missouri. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/29 "2002-11-11T12:59:33Z")
Thanks for all your answers. By the way, some people have stated that whatever state was “boring”, but after looking at the maps, I noticed that actually most US counties limits are drawn essentially along arbitrary (I assume) straight lines. The UK map is more to my taste . Do people have some sense of belonging to their counties, by the way (local nationalism, sort of) or do they essentially ignore them and couldn’t care less? (this question being prompted by this arbitrary division along straight lines) ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/30 "2002-11-11T13:29:01Z")
Most English people have _some_ sense of belonging to their home county, but the extreme version of this is Yorkshire. There’s even a Yorkshire Day which is much more celebrated than St George’s Day, and until a few years ago to play for their cricket team you had to be born in the county. My home county is Lancashire and we have a robust (though friendly) rivalry with them on account of the ancient [Wars of the Roses](http://www.warsoftheroses.com/), which my side won ;). ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/31 "2002-11-11T13:50:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > Most English people have _some_ sense of belonging to their home county, but the extreme version of this is Yorkshire. Would that be because there is no such thing as a county called just Yorkshire? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/32 "2002-11-11T14:37:39Z")
Try telling them that ;). As I vaguely hinted at in a previous post the boundary changes in 1974 were for the purposes of governmental administration - they didn’t abolish the historical counties entirely. There are even [certain organisations](http://www.abcounties.co.uk/) that exist to preserve the ancient counties for various purposes. Some counties such as Yorkshire and Lincolnshire were always so big that they were divided into smaller parts. In Yorkshire these were called Ridings (from an old word for third). Nowerdays there are four parts to the old county, but the people who live there still consider them to be part of something they all belong to. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/33 "2002-11-11T14:45:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*I noticed that actually most US counties limits are drawn essentially along arbitrary (I assume) straight lines. \*\* The reason the US and UK political subdivisions are different is that the geography and land measurement system in the US permitted and/or encouraged it. One can travel many miles in the US without mountains or major rivers, which might be natural boundary lines. The land measurement system was based upon “square” units. A section was one mile by one mile(640 acres) and a township was 36 sections, 6 by 6. As land was surveyed, companies and individuals often owned the land in these chunks, which influenced where the county boundaries were drawn. They wanted their track in one county not several. That’s why you often see counties that are in multiples of 6 miles, its a function of the size of townships. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/34 "2002-11-11T15:05:11Z")
Duh! Nothing like repeating someone else’s post. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/35 "2002-11-11T15:06:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Floater \* > \*\*Would that be because there is no such thing as a county called just Yorkshire? \*\* Upon re-reading it occured that I could have given you a better answer. The reason for the Yorkshire patriotism is not because their county was chopped up by boundary changes - it is a centuries old sentiment. The _real_ reason is because they’re a bunch of small-minded, petty, self-deluding, megalomaniacs who never know when they’re beaten :D. The reason _they’ll give you_ is that it’s the biggest, best and prettiest county in England. I cannot deny that parts of it are extremely pretty and a lovely place for a holiday. I was at university in Sheffield and found the people very friendly down there - even to a foreigner like me. Having said that, since I come from Liverpool most of the people in my home county think of me as a foreigner too. I’m sure **aahala’s** analysis of the US counties is correct. Look at the map of the States too - the North Eastern ones are quite small and very organically-shaped because they were settled slowly, whereas the Western ones are large and rectangular because they were settled very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/36 "2002-11-11T15:26:49Z")
Identification with county seems to depend on how powerful the county is. In Maryland, where I spent my later childhood, the counties are quite powerful and towns are all but meaningless. (The exception is Baltimore City, which as mentioned is independent and in many respects is treated as if it were a county. Just to confuse matters, it is largely surrounded by the separate jurisdiction of Baltimore County.) In suburban areas especially, people identify with the county: Montgomery, Prince George’s, Howard. I don’t think that’s as true in rural areas, but since there are fewer and fewer of those in Maryland I’m not sure. Here in New York, people seem to identify more with the town or city. In NYC, it’s mixed. There’s always the Manhattan v. Outer Borough split, with Manhattan really identifying as The City or NYC and the others identifying more locally, especially by neighborhood. That’s especially true in Queens, which was a collection of small towns when it joined NYC and retains that tradition even in its post office addresses. (There is no such thing as a “Queens” address: it’s Jamaica or Little Neck or Flushing or Long Island City…) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/37 "2002-11-11T17:54:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\*Do people have some sense of belonging to their counties, by the way (local nationalism, sort of) or do they essentially ignore them and couldn’t care less? (this question being prompted by this arbitrary division along straight lines) \*\* It depends very much on where one gets public services. In more urban parts of the U.S., the distinction between counties is somewhat ignored, because services are often available to all residents of the area. In the rural U.S., however, counties often operate hospitals and/or health clinics. The county paves the roads. Water and sewer districts are often located within county lines. The most prominent institution in many rural communities is the local school. In the U.S., public school districts are usually set up independently of county governments, but seldom cross county lines. When a lifelong resident of a county attends primary and secondary schools with people within one county, and the county provides services, the connection to the county is stronger than the issue of who makes the laws or collects the taxes. ---
**Author:** ![xicanorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a88e57/32.png) [@xicanorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xicanorex)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/38 "2002-11-11T18:18:17Z")
Well according the Texas Constitution, a county is legally defined as follows: > [@](#): > > \*\*The Legislature shall have power to create counties for the convenience of the people subject to the following provisions: > (1) Within the territory of any county or counties, no new county shall be created with a less area than seven hundred square miles, nor shall any such county now existing be reduced to a less area than seven hundred square miles. No new counties shall be created so as to approach nearer than twelve miles of the county seat of any county from which it may in whole or in part be taken. Counties of a less area than nine hundred, but of seven hundred or more square miles, within counties now existing, may be created by a two-thirds vote of each House of the Legislature, taken by yeas and nays and entered on the journals. Any county now existing may be reduced to an area of not less than seven hundred square miles by a like two-thirds vote. When any part of a county is stricken off and attached to, or created into another county, the part stricken off shall be holden for and obliged to pay its proportion of all the liabilities then existing, of the county from which it was taken, in such manner as may be prescribed by law. > (2) No part of any existing county shall be detached from it and attached to another existing county until the proposition for such change shall have been submitted, in such manner as may be provided by law, to a vote of the voters of both counties, and shall have received a majority of those voting on the question in each. (Amended Nov. 2, 1999.) \*\* XicanoreX ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/39 "2002-11-11T19:05:40Z")
> [@](#): > > The most prominent institution in many rural communities is the local school. In the U.S., public school districts are usually set up independently of county governments, but seldom cross county lines. I don’t know how strong a value of “usually” you wish to apply. The rural PA school district I was in drew students from parts of 4 counties, being located at the corner of a county. It wasn’t an unusual arrangement, as PA was heavily into consolidating their rural school districts as much as possible at that point, the limiting factor being how long school bus routes were getting. School districts “belonged” to a particular county for administrative purposes, however. My parents taught in that system, and I remember them being happy when the district “moved” from county A (which the high school was physically located in) to county B, because they thought the administration in county A had their heads up their butts, but county B knew what was going on. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054/40 "2002-11-11T19:09:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > **but after looking at the maps, I noticed that actually most US counties limits are drawn essentially along arbitrary (I assume) straight lines.** I believe it depends on the [**state**](http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/maps/georgia_map.html) and if it is east or west of the Mississippi River. Incidently, Georgia has the most counties of any state and is the largest state east of the Mississippi. [**Baldwin County**](http://www.co.baldwin.al.us/) in Alabama is the largest county east of the Mississippi. [**Franklin County, TN** \*](http://www.tngenweb.org/franklin/francivl.htm) was the only county to seceed from the Union. > [@](#): > > 1. Resolved, That upon the conditions of the 5th resolution, we declare ourselves out of the Union, subject to be ratified by the States of Alabama and Tennessee, as provided in said resolution, which we again earnestly request may be early attended to. \*\*\* WARNING\*\*- some people may find this site offensive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-size-of-a-county/136054.md?page=3)