# What is the status for quarantine laws, criminal and civil, being disobeyed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 25, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418 "2014-10-25T03:10:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/1 "2014-10-25T03:10:31Z")
In Detroit or NYC, say. The bowling doctor has caused significant financial damage to the bowling alley, meatball shop, to the city, etc. etc. As well as fear, of course. No law against being an asshole, of course. Laws will soon change or old ones be applied, and laws need penalties. An earlier OP of mine had a maximalist hyperbolic hed about shooting a symptomatic bus rider. It was supposed to introduce this subject… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/2 "2014-10-25T04:06:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Any person who violates any regulation prescribed under sections 264 to 266 of this title, or any provision of section 269 of this title or any regulation prescribed thereunder, or who enters or departs from the limits of any quarantine station, ground, or anchorage in disregard of quarantine rules and regulations or without permission of the quarantine officer in charge, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. [http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG-sec271.htm](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title42/html/USCODE-2011-title42-chap6A-subchapII-partG-sec271.htm) Let’s hope they’re uninfected before they get locked up. They don’t fuck around in Canada either; > [@](#): > > ``` > 67. (1) Every person is guilty of an offence if they cause a risk of imminent death or serious bodily harm to another person while wilfully or recklessly contravening this Act or the regulations. > Marginal note:Punishment > > (2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1) is liable > > (a) on conviction on indictment, to a fine of not more than $1,000,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than three years, or to both; and > > (b) on summary conviction, to a fine of not more than $300,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both. > > ``` [http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/Q-1.1/page-16.html#h-14](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/Q-1.1/page-16.html#h-14) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/3 "2014-10-25T12:29:00Z")
Well, in a particularly egregious case, Typhoid Mary was eventually given a life sentence of quarantine. Which is not to say she was locked in a tiny cell. She had plenty of visitors and comforts but since she wouldn’t stop infecting others the state stepped in to make sure it wouldn’t happen anymore. Fortunately, such extreme measures are not usually necessary. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/4 "2014-10-25T13:04:54Z")
What’s the law about AIDS? It it a criminal offence to deliberately or otherwise infect another person? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/5 "2014-10-25T13:26:35Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > In Detroit or NYC, say. > > The bowling doctor has caused significant financial damage to the bowling alley, meatball shop, to the city, etc. etc. As well as fear, of course. No law against being an asshole, of course… What did the doctor do wrong? He was not yet sick, how is it his fault the panicing against all the scientific knowledge? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/6 "2014-10-25T14:27:48Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > What did the doctor do wrong? He was not yet sick, how is it his fault the panicing against all the scientific knowledge? This is a hijack. Not going to go there. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/7 "2014-10-25T14:50:07Z")
**Leo** , could you provide a link to whatever it is that triggered this thread? What bowling doctor?? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/8 "2014-10-25T15:02:26Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > This is a hijack. Not going to go there. You ask about quarantines and yet mention the doctor who was not yet sick, how is it a hijack? ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/9 "2014-10-25T17:01:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > **Leo** , could you provide a link to whatever it is that triggered this thread? What bowling doctor?? See [http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/24/health/new-york-ebola-timeline/index.html](http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/24/health/new-york-ebola-timeline/index.html) Note two things - you need to be symptomatic to be contagious (he wasn’t symptomatic when he went bowling), and when he did become symptomatic he let the appropriate people know. It appears that people are required to be psychic about whether they have picked up Ebola when they are feeling fine. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/10 "2014-10-25T20:07:26Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > You ask about quarantines and yet mention the doctor who was not yet sick, how is it a hijack? You are right…I’m sorry I answered so peremptorily. As long as the query/comment stays with OP–the fact that there _are_ quarantine laws on the books–or will be, I suspect–then that’s cool. It’s just that I could see a thread and a half on that guy or this guy or whomever springing off independently. It’s because from my first try on the topic, the _very first_ and majority thereafter responses–which the mod had to stop–were from people demonstrating their sympathy for good causes in the large and OP’S political assumptions --“what, you don’t like blacks?” (it was only Africans at that time), “Texas loves guns” (and is conservative, hah hah), etc. Opinions about quarantine even of air flights has changed quite radically, from the FAA, for example, even since then. And, as I’ve said above, the question is real and cannot be wished away–no more than saying “better ninety-nine guilty go free than one innocent falsely convicted” as merely a pat and cliche response. It’s a good response, IMHO, and God bless the American public for reaching for it. But it periodically must be re-examined, just as what constitutes crowded theaters and fire, etc. etc., or any serious undertaking under law. And I dare say that the only situation in America comparable to the what this _may_–repeat, may–become, in terms of laws and social upset, is 9/11. Already the questions such as this OP and others having to do with personal/social/government response (in that order) on a national scale have never been as similar in terms of unknown as the widespread introduction of the notion of Islamic terrorism to the average citizen. Examples of the politics of that–eg, analogous to “Islamophobia,” “police state tendencies”–spring up instantly, as well, in this case, as the more recent “why aren’t you hip to SCIENCE [SD posters are into that tack],” which has a fraternal relationship to the politics of Global Warming stuff. See, all the above which I don’t want in this thread. 🙂 I hope I am not seen as having my cake and eating it in this post. > [@Canadjun](#): > > See [http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/24/health/new-york-ebola-timeline/index.html](http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/24/health/new-york-ebola-timeline/index.html) > > Note two things - you need to be symptomatic to be contagious (he wasn’t symptomatic when he went bowling), and when he did become symptomatic he let the appropriate people know. > > It appears that people are required to be psychic about whether they have picked up Ebola when they are feeling fine. Well, that is part of the legal issue. “I didn’t know it was loaded” has it’s place in gunfire crimes/not-crimes, and I am naturally relating that to the possibly-quarantinable-legally-culpable-maybe person who says “I didn’t know I was loaded.” And so in this case I am wondering what “symptomatic” means, as opposed to what is meant in the joke about being a little bit pregnant. Both you, and I and, as of now, 165 other people haven’t seen a single answer to this OP: Using any test possible, when is the earliest that Ebola can be detected in vivo? I’m just trying to focus, a little bit, the current flurry of _ **GQ** _ on this. And SD is needed, especially for the ignorant like me. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/11 "2014-10-25T20:21:41Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > … > > Both you, and I and, as of now, 165 other people haven’t seen a single answer to this OP: Using any test possible, when is the earliest that Ebola can be detected in vivo?… **Ramira** , I’m sorry about my presumption and any offensiveness about “you don’t know…,” meaning “you, Ramira.” If you do, great. As a general question asked and askable in the context, it was rhetorical. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/12 "2014-10-26T03:52:20Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > It appears that people are required to be psychic about whether they have picked up Ebola when they are feeling fine. Or to use prudence when they know that they’ve been exposed to people who have Ebola within the last 21 days. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/13 "2014-10-26T04:08:33Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Or to use prudence when they know that they’ve been exposed to people who have Ebola within the last 21 days. The doctor monitored his temperature twice daily. And he stayed in his apartment voluntarily as much as possible. When he did leave, he wasn’t showing symptoms, therefore not contagious. When he did observe a fever, he didn’t leave his apartment to go to the hospital. He called an ambulance, which responded with a medical team wearing full protective suits. Sounds prudent to me. It seems like a lot of the hysteria is borne out of ignorance. Yes, people should generally be concerned, but they should take the opportunity to educate themselves about the Ebola outbreak, too. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/14 "2014-10-26T05:48:14Z")
To make absolutely clear “the bowling doctor”, Craig Spencer was not under any quarantine orders and nor should he have been. He was working with full PPE in west africa with medicine sans frontiers and had no way of knowing he was infected. As cochrane points out he checked his temperature twice daily and followed the correct procedures. There is no evidence anyone has been put in danger by him going bowling. The CDC already has the authority to issue quarantine orders and they have significant penalties for being disobeyed. If you are implying that all medical workers that work with ebola (even with full protective gear) should be legally quarantined after exposure, then your thinking is extremely short sighted. If such a measure was actually enacted then no medical workers would be willing to work with Ebola patients at all. They already take considerable risks and make huge sacrifices especially if they volunteer with an organization like medicine sans frontiers like Craig Spencer did. If no one volunteers to go work over in West Africa (because of mandatory quarantine on top of what they already sacrifice) then the epidemic will spread unchecked in West Africa resulting in even more cases making it to the US. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/15 "2014-10-26T09:36:37Z")
Story of a quarantined nurse came out today, apparently she had a bad time of it. > [@](#): > > Stricter quarantine measures were put in place in New York and New Jersey after a doctor, Craig Spencer, tested positive for the virus on his return from Guinea last week. > > He is currently being treated at New York’s Bellevue Hospital in isolation. > … > The new measures mean that anyone who has had contact with Ebola victims in West Africa now faces a mandatory 21-day quarantine period. > > Illinois governor Pat Quinn announced on Saturday that his state would start imposing the same measures, without providing further details. > **[Ebola outbreak: US nurse criticises quarantine treatment](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29775698)** > > A US nurse quarantined for Ebola after working in Sierra Leone criticises her treatment, as the US's UN envoy starts a visit to West Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/16 "2014-10-26T10:28:04Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > If you are implying that all medical workers that work with ebola (even with full protective gear) should be legally quarantined after exposure, then your thinking is extremely short sighted. Apparently the governors of New York and New Jersey are that short-sighted. It was reported yesterday that they have ordered mandatory quarantine in a “quarantine facility” for 21 days for anyone exposed to or working with Ebola patients. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/17 "2014-10-26T10:56:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > \ It was reported yesterday that they have ordered mandatory quarantine in a “quarantine facility” for 21 days for anyone exposed to or working with Ebola patients. This is an idiotic move solely to pander to the irrational fears of the lowest common denominator. Hopefully other states won’t follow suit but if they do its going to be responsible for prolonging the epidemic in Africa, causing thousands more deaths and indirectly causing more cases to come to the US. The triumph of idiocracy…. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/18 "2014-10-26T11:00:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Apparently the governors of New York and New Jersey are that short-sighted. It was reported yesterday that they have ordered mandatory quarantine in a “quarantine facility” for 21 days for anyone exposed to or working with Ebola patients. [According to Doctors Without Borders](http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/msf-nurse-held-isolation-new-jersey), this “quarantine facility” is an unheated tent outside a hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/19 "2014-10-26T11:32:42Z")
Due to having a life of my own I have not researched this in detail, but from reporting I gather that Kaci Hickox was detained at the airport, transported in isolation gear, stuck in the “unheated tent” outside the hospital for hours on end in paper scrubs, and then put into an isolation room such as used for _active_ Ebola infections where she is expected to stay for the next 21 days. I freely admit all details of the above may not be accurate. Governor Christie has described her as obviously very ill, which is stupid of him because he’s not a medical doctor and certainly hasn’t met her in person. Apparently she was briefly showing a slightly elevated temperature, but that could be from being angry as hell at being essentially arrested and imprisoned for no good reason. Which she pointed out to the person saying “Ah-ha! You have a fever now!” and asked for an oral rather than skin temp reading. Thank Og she didn’t have a hot flash or something! I see no reason why people can’t have a home quarantine with appropriate monitoring until they show an _actual_ spiking fever, if ever. This isn’t schoolyard cooties, it’s not magically transmitted. Seriously, what’s next? Burning such a person’s every material possession to exorcise [del]the demons[/del] Ebola? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418/20 "2014-10-26T12:27:59Z")
“New Ebola Quarantine Protocol Seen as Barrier to Volunteers” But Dan Kelly, 33, an infectious disease doctor and a founder of Wellbody Alliance, a nonprofit organization working in Sierra Leone, criticized the governors’ response as knee-jerk. “I think we are just digging the grave deeper,” he said in a telephone interview from Freetown, the capital. “Come on, that’s exactly the move to push people away from going to Sierra Leone and other affected areas. It’s going to escalate the epidemic and not help solve the crisis.” He added: “If we’re going to get in front of it, we need health care workers from abroad. They cannot feel shunned or discriminated against.” > **[New Ebola Quarantine Protocol Seen as Barrier to Volunteers (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/nyregion/ebola-quarantines-seen-as-barrier-to-volunteers.html?_r=0)** > > Requirements for isolating people who had contact with Ebola patients, like those announced in New York and New Jersey, could dissuade Americans from working at the front lines of the epidemic. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-status-for-quarantine-laws-criminal-and-civil-being-disobeyed/702418.md?page=2)