# What is the Straight Dope on Raw Milk **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2021, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831 "2021-06-22T10:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/21 "2021-06-22T14:00:02Z")
🙂 Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/22 "2021-06-22T14:23:49Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > On the other hand, if you did double-blinded taste tests of raw whole milk and pasteurized whole milk at the same (warmish) temperature, I’m not convinced that most people could distinguish the two. Oh, I’ll take that Pepsi challenge any day of the week. When I tasted that milk it immediately reminded me of being a kid at the neighbor’s dairy farm. The difference is more than noticeable. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/23 "2021-06-22T14:42:00Z")
We drank raw milk for years, bought from a local farmer whose daughter/manager is a licensed dairy inspector. I don’t really buy any of the woo, but it tasted great. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > As for taste, maybe it’s better coming straight from the cow. On the other hand, if you did double-blinded taste tests of raw whole milk and pasteurized whole milk at the same (warmish) temperature, I’m not convinced that most people could distinguish the two. We did this (four people) because I was curious, though at refrigerator temperature, and everyone correctly identified the raw milk as the better tasting. Of course, if you did this with four people who didn’t already like the rich flavor, that might not happen. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/24 "2021-06-22T15:35:37Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I thought it was obvious that I was using hyperbole in my #1 and #2 examples. The search results typically are one or the other of, “Raw milk is untested and can cause sickness or in some cases death, so be very cautious or do not drink it at all” or “Raw milk contains essential vitamins which are lost in the pasteurization process and provide many health benefits.” First off, it’s a known problem of consuming raw milk that it may be infected with _Vibrio_ and other bacteria which can cause serious illness, and even death in rare cases. That’s no exaggeration at all. You’re playing Russian roulette when you drink it. A few minutes of Googling turns up several disturbing instances of dozens of schoolchildren and other tourists sickened by raw milk as part of a dairy tour. It doesn’t always happen, but it happens enough. Second… there’s no special health benefit in consuming raw milk. Maaaaaybe it contains more vitamins than pasteurized milk. Maybe. But none of those vitamins are specific to raw milk, and they’re common enough that you’re already getting them abundantly from other parts of your diet. Given that there’s zero proven benefit to raw milk, and a proven risk of illness from _Vibrio_ and friends, and the widespread availability of pasteurized milk, from a health standpoint there’s every reason to avoid it and no reason to seek it out. Including for veterinary use, the risks are the same for human use. The only reason we have a debate is that raw milk tastes really fantastic, far superior to pasteurized. It’s an incontrovertible fact. Pasteurization removes some very delicious flavors. And some people insist on their right to eat fantastic things even though it may seriously harm or kill them. Some state regulatory bodies have come up with (IMO) a good compromise by allowing raw milk to be sold, but it must be dyed grey. People who seek the flavor (or who believe it’s better for their pets) can get what they want, and there’s no risk of raw-milk fans “accidentally” serving it to schoolchildren without their knowledge or consent. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/25 "2021-06-22T16:06:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So I googled it and it seems to return only one of two basic ideas: 1) That you will die a horrible death from drinking raw milk, or 2) that raw milk can seriously cure all ills that a human being could ever have. > > What is the real deal? Is it dangerous? Does it provide any benefits in addition to milk I get at the grocery store? Thanks. The smooth and creamy part is from not being homogenized. You can buy non homogenized milk at many stores, usually by the Qt in glass bottles, costing twice as much+. The taste part if from being really fresh. Non pasteurized milk has no health benefits, and some risk. From a Qt once a month, the risk is small. Everyday drinking and the risk is no longer small. > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And yet the Amish are not dying off from milk related disease. The Amish have smaller herds, don’t mix their milk with those a a million other cows in giant trailer trucks, and give their cows better individual attention. And you do not usually die from Salmonella. > **[Salmonella outbreak that sickened 25 linked to raw milk](https://www.startribune.com/salmonella-outbreak-that-sickened-25-linked-to-raw-milk/208248661/)** > > Mexican-style cheese was delivered to homes and possibly was sold on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/26 "2021-06-22T16:07:53Z")
Since I wrote about Lactose Intolerance at the Planet Lactose blog, I’ve needed to do dozens of articles on raw milk. I’ve picked out some of the major pieces. They’re all about a decade old, but I know of nothing that would make me think that the reality has changed. If you don’t want to click, the short answer is that while raw milk can taste better, it is a gamble whether the farm can avoid all the diseases that can strike even well-maintained herds. ### [**Another Denunciation of Raw Milk**](https://planetlactose.blogspot.com/2010/07/another-denunciation-of-raw-milk.html) ### [Raw Milk Not For “Anyone, At Any Time, For Any Reason”](https://planetlactose.blogspot.com/2008/05/raw-milk-not-for-anyone-at-any-time-for.html) ### [Southeastern Wisconsin Residents Sickened by Raw Milk](https://planetlactose.blogspot.com/2009/09/southeastern-wisconsin-residents.html) ### [The Dangers of Raw Milk](https://planetlactose.blogspot.com/2009/03/dangers-of-raw-milk.html) ### [Raw Milk Article Long but Flawed](https://planetlactose.blogspot.com/2008/03/raw-milk-article-long-but-flawed.html) And one that covers a lot of history: [Raw Milk Not for Lactose Intolerants](https://planetlactose.blogspot.com/2006/01/raw-milk-not-for-lactose-intolerants.html) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/27 "2021-06-22T16:12:52Z")
Sure, as it was fresher and in a glass bottle. And as he said the temp was part of it. I drank mink straight from the cow at the farm- I did not like it. Once refrigerated so it was cold, it was fine. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/28 "2021-06-22T16:14:28Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > We did this (four people) because I was curious, though at refrigerator temperature, and everyone correctly identified the raw milk as the better tasting. Did you compare it with non-_homogenized_ milk or normal grocery store milk? Non-_homogenized_ milk does taste different. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The only reason we have a debate is that raw milk tastes really fantastic, far superior to pasteurized. It’s an incontrovertible fact. Pasteurization removes some very delicious flavors. And some people insist on their right to eat fantastic things even though it may seriously harm or kill them. I do not think that is a fact. The issue is more homogenization, not pasteurization. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/29 "2021-06-22T16:22:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Maserschmidt](#): > > > > We did this (four people) because I was curious, though at refrigerator temperature, and everyone correctly identified the raw milk as the better tasting. > > Did you compare it with non- _homogenized_ milk or normal grocery store milk? I thought that he compared it to Pepsi. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/30 "2021-06-22T17:23:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I do not think that is a fact. The issue is more homogenization, not pasteurization. Here’s a [a scientific abstract](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002203020871213X) that explains why you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/31 "2021-06-22T17:37:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > On the other hand, if you did double-blinded taste tests of raw whole milk and pasteurized whole milk at the same (warmish) temperature, I’m not convinced that most people could distinguish the two. The difference in taste is subtle, but it’s there. Pasteurization gives milk a slightly cooked flavor, similar to boiled milk but very faint. Other than that, the only differences in taste are due to milkfat content variation. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/32 "2021-06-22T17:43:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did you compare it with non- _homogenized_ milk or normal grocery store milk? Non- _homogenized_ milk does taste different. I’ve tried, at various times, raw milk from two sources, non-homogenized milk from two supermarket brands, and dozens of ordinary brands of homogenized pasteurized milk. Also, when i was a kid, i went to a camp that got fresh milk twice daily from a herd of Guernsey cows a couple miles away. I believe it was pasteurized, but i suppose i don’t actually know. It was homogenized. At least, i never noticed it separating, and i do notice that when we buy unhomogenized milk. Hands down, the two best-tasting milks were the fresh Guernsey milk and one of the two unpasteurized milks. Both are just tons better than ordinary milk. Richer, creamier, and fresher-tasting. The other unpasteurized milk was middle-of-the-pack. As are the unhomogenized milks. (Unless you cheat and pour off too much cream.) I’m pretty sure the difference is a combination of the freshness and having a higher butterfat content. I love good milk. (I love okay milk, but i love good milk more.) I’ll be buying unpasteurized milk the next time I’m near the place that sells the good stuff. Alas, it’s not close to home. Oh, all of those milks were consumed chilled, at comparable temperatures. I’ve never had milk straight from the cow, at body temp. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/33 "2021-06-22T17:44:59Z")
That article compares 2% pasteurized milk to 2% pasteurized milk. The difference is only the temp of the pasteurization and how many days it has sat. _Consumers preferred 79°C milk over other treatments on d 0; however, at d 6 postpasteurization, 79 and 82°C milks were preferred over the 77°C treatment. …This research reveals that altering the pasteurization temperature from 79°C may cause a decrease in consumer acceptability to some consumers._ Homogenization, whole vs 2%, and lack of pasteurization is not part of the study at all. By no means does this article show that unpasteurized milk tastes better than pasteurized milk. What it shows that high temp pasteurization does somewhat effect taste to the detriment on milk day 1, but that after 6 days, high temp pasteurization milk is preferred. There is a _radical_ taste difference between homogenized and nonhomogenized milk. Very fresh milk is tastier. And glass bottles seem to effect taste. Higher butterfat of course tastes better. Once those four variables are controlled, there could be a small difference in taste, sure. But when most people say “wow this unpasteurized milk tastes better!” they are mostly _tasting-_ nonhomogenized, fresher, higher butterfat, and glass bottled milk. and yes, as the below quotes indicate- > [@needscoffee](#): > > Other than that, the only differences in taste are due to milkfat content variation. Milk fat is a major difference also. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’m pretty sure the difference is a combination of the freshness and having a higher butterfat content. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/34 "2021-06-22T17:48:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There is a _radical_ taste difference between homogenized and nonhomogenized milk. _If_ you’re drinking the higher fat portion of the bottle, yes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/35 "2021-06-22T17:48:43Z")
Yes, good point. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/36 "2021-06-22T18:36:48Z")
We can all agree that my former classmate who bought unpasteurised milk and kept it _in the cupboard_ was a flaming loon though, right? He had a fridge in the house, just refused to use it. I’ve had unpasteurised milk produced onsite for their own use by a little alternative community I was staying with, the sort of place where they produced almost all their own food, and the cows all had names- It did taste pretty amazing. I guess that hadn’t been refrigerated either, but it had only been out of the cow an hour or so- someone dropped some round to every house fresh every morning. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/37 "2021-06-22T18:48:43Z")
I have been known to drink raw maple sap, but it’s from the trees in my own yard. And mostly I do boil it thoroughly before consuming. But it’s so cool and refreshing on an early spring day fresh from the tap that I can’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/38 "2021-06-22T19:06:50Z")
So, to sum up- I have no doubt that the unpasteurized milk tasted better- but _mostly_ as it was higher butterfat (probably 20% higher), days fresher, in a glass bottle, and not homogenized. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/39 "2021-06-22T19:43:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Amish have smaller herds, don’t mix their milk with those a a million other cows in giant trailer trucks, and give their cows better individual attention. And you do not usually die from Salmonella. I don’t know of any raw milk going into container trucks, it’s sold right at the farm. As for homogenization in my own test, we always shake the bottle quite a bit before we drink it. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/40 "2021-06-22T21:38:48Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And yet the Amish are not dying off from milk related disease. Deaths are rare, in part because drinking raw milk is rare. The risk of outbreaks associated with raw milk is ~150x that of pasteurized milk. More numbers here: > **[Outbreak Studies on Raw Milk | CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/rawmilk-outbreaks.html)** > > Read about three CDC studies on raw milk outbreaks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831.md?page=3)