# What is the Straight Dope on Raw Milk **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2021, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831 "2021-06-22T10:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/61 "2021-06-24T09:55:22Z")
Although I feel raw milk is quite safe to drink with careful handling, I wholly agree that the bogus claims for it are reprehensible. On more than one occasion someone asked me for raw milk because they or a family member suffered from some auto-immune disorder and they thought it would help them, based on these garbage ideas. NOOOOO. I’m fine with drinking raw milk from my own animals. And that’s about where my boundary is. ---
**Author:** ![oldoaktree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ccd318/32.png) [@oldoaktree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldoaktree)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/62 "2021-06-24T10:02:57Z")
very informative. I wouldn’t eat any of it. but to each their own. and any magical elixir qualities to raw milk, i consider “woo” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/63 "2021-06-24T11:55:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > This is why some places were raw milk is legal restrict it to small scale operations where you have to purchase the milk on the farm it is produced and said places are inspected more frequently than typical dairies. It’s easier to watch smaller numbers of animals, purchasing it on the farm means less time and transport in which things can go wrong, and more frequent inspections we hope means less risk of sick cows or bad practices in handling milk. Yes, many states, including mine, allow small, highly regulated dairies to sell raw milk directly to the consumer, but don’t allow it to be sold via third parties, like grocery stores. (And i have to sign a waiver, and give the dairy contact information in case they have a recall.) This seems like a reasonable compromise. It allows informed consumers to buy raw milk that is very fresh and comes from a small dairy. It limits the number of people who will be sickened from a single sick cow, reducing the public health impact. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/64 "2021-06-24T12:07:22Z")
> [@oldoaktree](#): > > but to each their own. But their children don’t get to make that decision so I think it best that good information prevail for _their_ sake, at least. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/65 "2021-06-24T12:11:18Z")
I remember a few years ago, my state had a law that prohibited the sale of raw milk but allowed you to drink raw milk from a cow you owned. Of course, then some smart people devised a system whereby they sold “partial ownership” of cows such that on paper hundreds of people “owned” one cow and paid others for their “share” of the milk they drank. My state got rid of this fiction and finally legalized it, although I don’t know the restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/66 "2021-06-24T12:26:40Z")
That has the same impact, though – the “owner” needs to deal directly with the dairy, and there’s a limit to how many cows milk will be mixed. And the “owners” probably get the milk fresh. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/67 "2021-06-24T12:53:37Z")
The problem, I think, is that there isn’t really an option to get “pasteurized but otherwise like the raw milk” milk. So “raw milk” tastes better/different because of where it comes from and the production processes. If I could get “straight from the cow except only pasturized” milk I’d drink it all day long. Except I’m probably too cheap to pay the higher cost over commercial milk anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/68 "2021-06-24T13:16:30Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*there’s an industry group called the Raw Milk Institute that makes dubious claims about raw milk. Their website’s FAQ section has a statement saying that raw milk is highly unlikely to transmit Covid-19 (which I have no reason to doubt); however the very next FAQ answers claim that raw milk improves lung and immune function. That juxtaposition might well lead people to believe that raw milk protects against Covid-19 disease - something I have seen zero scientific evidence to support. Something I didn’t notice initially: claims about raw milk supposedly benefiting lung and immune function are accessed on the industry website by clicking on the link “FAQ About Raw Milk And Covid19”. These people are skating on a thin edge, seeing that the FDA has warned sellers of other products advertised as preventing/treating Covid-19. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/69 "2021-06-24T13:41:48Z")
I do not drink cow milk, but reading this thread has been interesting. There is an allowable number of white blood cells in milk that is sold for consumption. This number is called the [somatic cell count.](https://www.saberfarm.com/what-every-dairy-farmer-needs-to-know-about-somatic-cell-counts/) > The generally accepted threshold for a healthy cow is up to 100,000 **somatic cells** /mL of **milk**. The generally accepted indicator of mastitis is 200,000 **cells** /mL of **milk** , with higher **cell** counts used as an indicator of the severity of infection. I have no problem consuming raw eggs laid by our hens. I eat oysters every chance I get. I was made very sick once from vibriosis in oysters, but I still eat them. Milk, on the other hand. No. Can’t get past the idea that there is pus in the liquid. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/70 "2021-06-24T13:59:35Z")
Those allowed cells aren’t “pus”. As a bodily fluid expelled through ducts it’s going to have some cells in it shed from the interior of the udder just as your pee has shed kidney/urethra/bladder cells, the spit in your mouth has cells shed from the interior of your cheeks and your tongue, your nose snot has shed sinus cells, your earwax has skin cells… It’s not “white blood cells” that they count, it’s cells. All that stuff shed normally by perfectly health animals. If your mama breastfed you there were shed mama-cells in her milk, too. Infections do increase the numbers of cells shed, but also the type of cells. A count of absolute number is an indicator of infection and a trigger for more investigation. If actual blood or pus is found in milk it is supposed to be thrown out, not consumed and it doesn’t matter how much per unit is found, it’s not supposed to be in there at all. In actual fact, your steak or chicken leg or what have you has a LOT more white blood cells in it than milk, because animal flesh has blood in it and white cells are a normal part of blood. But you don’t say steak has “pus” in it. So no, from a healthy cow does NOT have pus in it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/71 "2021-06-24T14:05:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s not “white blood cells” that they count, it’s cells. [From here:](https://ahdb.org.uk/somatic-cell-count-milk-quality-indicator) > The majority of **somatic cells** are leukocytes (white **blood cells** ) - which become present in increasing numbers in **milk** usually as an immune response to a mastitis-causing pathogen - and a small **number** of epithelial **cells** , which are **milk** -producing **cells** shed from inside of the udder when an infection occurs. /hijack ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/72 "2021-06-24T14:07:57Z")
But…if raw milk boosts immune function and protects against infection, why do cows still get sick??? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/73 "2021-06-24T14:16:06Z")
Clearly, the cows aren’t drinking enough milk! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/74 "2021-06-24T14:18:21Z")
Uh, yeah @kayaker - we just said the same thing, but with a different emphasis. Your source indicates that it’s not just white blood cells. And you seem to have missed my point that white blood cells in and of themselves are not called “pus” nor indicative of infection. You have thousands of while blood cells surging through your own veins at this time, do you say you have “pus” in your blood? If you don’t like milk and don’t want to drink it then don’t, but don’t spread fabrications that it’s full of pus when it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/75 "2021-06-24T21:55:48Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > So “raw milk” tastes better/different because of where it comes from and the production processes. If I could get “straight from the cow except only pasturized” milk I’d drink it all day long. Not to question @tofor but is this the case? If I took milk straight from a cow, sprinted to my kitchen and boiled it for X seconds (or however you home pasteurize milk) and then immediately chilled it and then drank it, would it taste just the same as the raw kind? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/76 "2021-06-24T22:14:05Z")
@UltraVires Pasteurizing milk does not involve boiling it. The process of pasteurization involves heating milk to 160.5 °F for at least 15 seconds (and no more than 25 seconds) then cooling it rapidly to 37 °F. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/77 "2021-06-24T22:21:11Z")
This. I have a hard time telling the difference between pasteurized and raw home milk, myself, but some people might. If you did boil it, it would definitely taste different. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/78 "2021-06-24T22:54:21Z")
That’s one option. Supposedly pasteurization at a lower temperature for a longer period of time results in better tasting milk. This [site](https://www.idfa.org/pasteurization) says thirty minutes at 145°F will also work. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/79 "2021-06-24T23:02:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Um… yes and no. Overall, great post. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/80 "2021-06-25T10:27:56Z")
Raw milk can transmit diseases. But it so rarely does in practice, that it is generally safe to drink. If raw milk consumption became widespread enough, it would tip the balance and cause, by sheer volume, a public health issue. Camel milk has potential. Camels are immune to bovine diseases that can spread to humans through milk. But camels are less efficient milk producers for a number of reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831.md?page=5)