# What is the Straight Dope on Raw Milk **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2021, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831 "2021-06-22T10:53:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/121 "2021-07-06T12:27:46Z")
For mammals to lose the ability to digest lactose after they stop nursing is the normal default, established by millions of years of evolution. It’s the persistence of the ability to digest lactose after weaning that is the new mutation, which appears to have occurred just a few thousand years ago. > **[Study reveals lactose tolerance happened quickly in Europe](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200903114212.htm)** > > A new study published in Current Biology reveals that the ability for humans to digest milk (lactase persistence) spread through Central Europe quickly in evolutionary terms. Also of interest: > **[Humans were drinking milk before they could digest it](https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-were-drinking-milk-they-could-digest-it)** > > Study of ancient Africans suggests dairy consumption predated evolution of lactase persistence genes and more interesting info! > **[An Evolutionary Whodunit: How Did Humans Develop Lactose Tolerance?](https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/12/27/168144785/an-evolutionary-whodunit-how-did-humans-develop-lactose-tolerance)** > > Thousands of years ago, ancient farmers gained the ability to consume milk as adults without getting an upset stomach. A remarkable mutation let some of them digest lactose sugar. But scientists still puzzle over why that mutation persisted and... ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/122 "2021-07-06T13:44:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > As I said, I wasn’t pushing this, I just read it. Did people who suffer from lactose intolerance also have problems with nursing as babies? Yes. A friend had to put his baby on non-dairy formula because she was severely lactose intolerant. It’s unusual for newborns not to make lactase, but it can happen. For that matter, my daughter had “colic” and cried all the time as a baby. She was diagnosed as lactose intolerant as a small child. She digested my milk well enough that she grew and all that, but my guess is she was partially lactose intolerant even as a nursing infant. Lactose intolerance is an issue digesting a specific protein for which you need a specific enzyme, and that enzyme works equally well on milk from you mother or from a cow or from any other source. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/123 "2021-07-06T14:46:18Z")
Very interesting. Thank you. So maybe it was “reverse” evolution. People who could tolerate milk products didn’t starve to death. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/124 "2021-07-06T15:11:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Lactose intolerance is an issue digesting a specific protein Digesting a specific carbohydrate, actually. Lactose, or ‘milk sugar’. It’s a disaccharide, formed by joining one molecule of glucose and one molecule of galactose. Lactase cleaves the lactose into its component simple sugars, and then those can be readily absorbed. Lack of lactase means lactose stays in the gut where bacteria feast on it and make a ton of gas and other volatile molecules in the process. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/125 "2021-07-06T15:20:14Z")
Right, my bad. Thanks for the correction. I shouldn’t post “science” before I have my morning caffeine. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/126 "2021-07-06T15:23:38Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So maybe it was “reverse” evolution. People who could tolerate milk products didn’t starve to death. I would just call it “evolution”, personally, but yes. A genetic mutation arose among people who kept meat animals that made abundant milk, allowing them to digest milk as adults. And that mutation was selected for, as they had more food sources than those without the mutation. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/127 "2021-07-06T18:02:04Z")
Happened more than once, too, with different groups developing lactose tolerance in different ways. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/128 "2021-07-06T18:18:42Z")
I just read a thread on travel stack exchange, on the same topic, where there were two answers: one was something about center of gravity, which seems like it would be less of a concern on an A330, but what do I know and the other was > In long flights, in airplanes that has no crew rest area (bunks) such as A330, airlines reserve the seats at the rear of the airplane for the crew to take rests (shifts). So that might be it, though I don’t know if a little over 7 hours counts as a long flight. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/129 "2021-07-06T18:51:52Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > So that might be it, though I don’t know if a little over 7 hours counts as a long flight. It would be a long flight if you’re having severe lactose intolerance. Or a raw milk induced illness. Especially if it’s a bumpy flight with limited access to lavatories. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/130 "2021-07-06T18:53:46Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > It would be a long flight if you’re having severe lactose intolerance. Pretty long for one’s fellow passengers as well. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/131 "2021-07-06T18:59:25Z")
Aw great. We just herded this thread back from the “rectal exam” drift, and now we got airplanes? On topic, somewhat, this thread inspired such a dairy craving in me that there’s now a (partially killed) carton of heavy cream in my fridge, for no reason beyond the fact that I wanted to drink straight up cream. Back to the “raw milk” discussion … ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/132 "2021-07-06T19:10:26Z")
lol. Somehow I screwed up the respond to email feature of discourse. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/133 "2021-07-06T20:24:54Z")
I had home made yogurt for lunch. 😋 ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/134 "2021-07-06T21:16:02Z")
BUT!! Did you make the yogurt from raw milk, and if so, are you 1a) healthier, or 2b) dead? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/135 "2021-07-06T21:55:39Z")
Not only did we start with pasteurized milk, the first step in our recipe is to briefly heat the milk to boiling (using the “steam” setting on the instant pot.) So I think we are re-pasteurizing it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/136 "2021-07-06T23:34:37Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is an interesting thing and I read an article some time ago that the reason many people are lactose intolerant is that their bodies recognize that “this didn’t come from your mother’s breast! It’s an invader’s substitute. Puke it up!” > > I don’t have a cite or any idea if it is reliable, but makes sense on its surface. Nope, it’s that nearly all mammals stop producing lactase after weaning because why would they ever need it after that? Lactose “intolerance” is the norm in nature. Those of us who can still digest it in adulthood are the freaky mutants. It has nothing to do with “this is not mom”, it’s “this is baby food and I’m not a baby anymore” except some of us retain the ability to digest it far longer than we “should”. > [@UltraVires](#): > > As I said, I wasn’t pushing this, I just read it. Did people who suffer from lactose intolerance also have problems with nursing as babies? No, because nearly all mammals produce lactase as infants. There is a condition called [galactosemia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactosemia) in which individuals can’t properly digest milk that, prior to the invention of non-dairy baby formula, was usually fatal in infancy. But even they have lactase, it’s further down the processing chain that they have a problem. As others have mentioned, it’s possible to be lactose intolerant from birth but very rare. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/137 "2021-07-06T23:38:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > except some of us retain the ability to digest it far longer than we “should”. And if it’s ice cream 🍦🍨 we’re talking about I’m damn glad to be defective. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/138 "2021-07-06T23:39:50Z")
Not “defective” - different. It’s not a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/139 "2021-07-07T21:35:20Z")
Remember to consider unforseen circumstances. > **[\#024; In which factors Public Health](http://wondermark.com/024/)** > > (Click to read the whole comic) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831/140 "2021-07-07T22:51:54Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Surely it can’t simply be that the pasteurized milk has the bacteria removed. Once I’ve opened a gallon of milk it’s exposed to all kinds of bacteria in the air. Is there something different about commercial milk that prevents it from souring? If I could magically teleport all the bacteria out of the raw milk, would it eventually spoil in the same horrid way? I would suspect that the raw milk is protected from the spoiling bacteria by the benign bacteria. The bacteria that turn milk into yogurt (mostly lactobacillus) will form an inhospitable environment for the bacteria that make the more objectionable smells and tastes. Pasteurization gets rid of all the bacteria, then when it is colonized by whatever is in the air in your home you get bad bacteria as well. When you make yogurt at home you’ll sterilize the milk first then add a culture to introduce the lactobacillus. Or just use the unwashed mason jars from the last batch of yogurt, that’s what I do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-straight-dope-on-raw-milk/944831.md?page=8)