# What is the Tea Party movement, really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271 "2013-07-23T01:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/61 "2013-07-23T17:54:34Z")
I know I’m a bit late to the mix (it’s a fast moving topic), but about that liberatian/nativist/reactionary mish-mosh of a teaparty-centralist platform, did nobody else notice #88: “88) Computer artificial intelligence has evolved to the point that it can predict the future with extreme accuracy.” OK, it doesn’t seem to relate to the next item #89 (“It will be illegal for elected officials to become lobbyists or obtain any job that could be construed as being in conflict of interest.”), so I guess the teaparty-centralists are supportive of the concept of the Singularity then? I also note that #98 and #99 just seem to be random statements: 98) One problem our Founding Fathers could not foresee is that a Constitutional amendment could now be passed without a majority vote. 99) Early in our history, people were encouraged to settle land, populate the country and even more recently, to own houses. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/62 "2013-07-23T18:20:50Z")
If I was limited to one word to describe the Tea Party, it would be “paranoid”. These are people who are afraid and feel threatened. They think that American life should be like a Norman Rockwell painting. They want things to be back like they were, when minorities were neither seen nor heard, when “good girls” didn’t do it, when we never heard of Muslims and we tolerated Jews but wanted Christians to be in charge, when movies had no swear words and you never saw a breast, when gay people stayed in hiding lest they be ruined or beaten to within an inch of their lives. That America that they remember is perhaps just a romantic illusion, but they believe that if we could just go back and turn back the clock to that innocent age, all would be well. So you have this group of people who pine for a nation that no longer exists, if it ever did. Then you have a huge economic collapse resulting in the election of a black president. These people were beside themselves. Could things get any worse? But they knew it was no longer politically acceptable to whine about the president’s ethnicity. They had to find something else to set their teeth into. They tried their hand at identifying Obama as a Muslim, some still do that, or buying into the birther nonsense. Those weren’t providing any traction, but Obama gave them a gift- the Affordable Care Act. Despite the fact that it was essentially the same package that Republicans offered as an alternative to Hillarycare, it became the lightning rod. It was socialism, it was a government takeover of the economy, it was death panels. A black man in the White House who wants to kill grandma! And take your guns and raise your taxes. The Republican elite saw this as fertile ground for sowing 2010 voters, so they bankrolled it. They were going to fight the socialist Obamacare. Little did the Teabaggers know that Republicans had already met on Inauguration Evening and vowed to never give Obama any cooperation. The Teabaggers saw the Republicans as their salvation from Obama and they elected a GOP House. So while the elite took the Teabaggers’ votes, they also paid lip service to the lies about Obamacare and the stimulus and their paranoia about their guns, all the while convincing these lower middle class whites that their salvation was in cutting taxes for the rich and gutting regulations. Government was the enemy and it could do no good, at least as long as Democrats had any say. So what is the Tea Party? A group of paranoid racists who have been exploited by the GOP elite. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/63 "2013-07-23T18:24:35Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I can see protesting taxes is very American… Indeed, the Revolution was _started_ by a bunch of Rich White Guys who didn’t want to pay their taxes (even though they liked the government subsidies they received). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/64 "2013-07-23T18:30:29Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Indeed, the Revolution was _started_ by a bunch of Rich White Guys who didn’t want to pay their taxes (even though they liked the government subsidies they received). More to the point, they were rich white guys who wanted a say in how they were taxed. “[No taxation without representation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation)”, no? It was never “We don’t want to pay any taxes ever”. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/65 "2013-07-23T18:39:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So what is the Tea Party? A group of paranoid racists who have been exploited by the GOP elite. I’ll give you this much - you’re consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/66 "2013-07-23T18:41:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’d be surprised if there _weren’t_ anti-tax groups in existence long before the advent of the Tea Party rising in 2009 (hell, how long has Grover N been banging his particular drum?). That doesn’t mean the movement wasn’t seriously hijacked by political and corporate interests for their own purposes when Obama came to power. The two facts are not mutually exclusive. Agreed - I said as much in my initial (and a couple of subsequent) posts. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/67 "2013-07-23T18:43:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > More to the point, they were rich white guys who wanted a say in how they were taxed. “[No taxation without representation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation)”, no? It was never “We don’t want to pay any taxes ever”. Even more to the point, they were a bunch of rich white guys who knew they were facing the end of their wealth, and possibly their lives, for rebellion and did it anyway. So they must have been SUPER greedy already-rich white guys. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/68 "2013-07-23T18:44:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If I was limited to one word to describe the Tea Party, it would be “paranoid”. These are people who are afraid and feel threatened. Then let’s **get 'em!** God forbid they should be disappointed! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/69 "2013-07-23T18:52:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Indeed, the Revolution was _started_ by a bunch of Rich White Guys who didn’t want to pay their taxes (even though they liked the government subsidies they received). Oh, yes, [that’s another thing](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tea_party_movement#Stupidity). > [@](#): > > **Stupidity** > > The problems with these teabagging protests are many, but boil down to rich right-wingers taking advantage of uninformed working stiffs. Generally, these protests suffer at least one of these flaws: > 1.The Obama administration had issued no new taxes at all, before the date of the protest. Any complaint about the tax policy at the time should be directed at the Bush administration, whose taxes were still in effect. Even after the Obama administration changed the tax laws for the following year, 95% of people will get a tax cut, not an increase. No reports exist saying whether the protests consisted entirely of the 5% who would pay (slightly) more taxes. Furthermore, though the Teabaggers frequently protest the 2009 stimulus package, tax cuts encompassed 37% of the stimulus. > 2.The original Tea Party was to protest taxation without representation. The US currently has taxation with representation, unless Obama plans to suspend free elections (he doesn’t). Thus, using tea is an inappropriate, idiotic idea that accomplishes nothing except pointing out which people are not clever enough to research what they are protesting about. Oh, and giving some fish a brief caffeine and tannin high. And creating a temporary windfall in sales of tea bags. > \*\*3.Also, and more amusingly, the original Tea party was a protest over the tea tariff being _cut_ — but only for the British East India Company, giving them a virtual monopoly due to lower pricing over the wealthy merchants who were being undercut (and who were the “protesters”). \*\* > 4.Promoted as a “giant” protest, with “over 500” local events, it is utterly dwarfed by the “protest heard 'round the world” against the start of the Iraq War, which earned George W. Bush the ignominious title of having the largest number of people ever in history to protest against him. > 5.Many who consider themselves to be part of the Tea Party worship the Republican Party and/or people like Glenn Beck. Others (wanting to appear “independent”) claim to not agree with such organizations or people, yet espouse much of the same crackpot rhetoric. They think that listening to paranoid blowhard Alex Jones and reading infowars makes them savvy. See also from the same page: > [@](#): > > **Conspiracy Theorists** > > The Tea Party has attracted many conspiracy theorists to its cause. Anyone who spends time on an active Tea Party forum will see a number of conspiracy-related threads pop up. More common conspiracies include: > The belief that Obama is deliberately trying to destroy America, or trying to create a socialist/communist totalitarian government. > The belief that Obama’s presidency is part of a plot to institute the New World Order - often referring to George Soros or the UN. > And, of course, Birtherism > > An eagle-eyed viewer may also find: > 9/11 truthers > Conspiracies about chemtrails > Abiotic oil And: > [@](#): > > **Conflict with Libertarians** > > Though the movement claims to be libertarian, many libertarians have come out against the movement[38] and its prominent figures.[39] A Libertarian Party poll has also shown that Libertarians see the Teabaggers as too “Republican-flavored.”[40] Some of their possible “problems” with the Tea Party could be: > The Teabaggers’ closeness to neoconservatives, such as Dick Cheney. > The Teabaggers’ reactionary social policies and support for immigration law. > The Teabaggers’ “national security” policies - which are “un-libertarian”. > Glenn Beck’s previous entanglement with a Libertarian candidate. > The Teabaggers’ failure in oppose legislated deprivations of liberty of those who do not match their own demographic. > > **It’s about taxes and spending, really!** > > Libertarians (as well as most everyone else) don’t buy this line. A number of polls have shown considerable overlap between the Tea Party and the religious right (though you didn’t really need polls to tell you that considering some of their favorite candidates). > A poll by the Public Religion Research Institute found that almost half of Teabaggers openly identify as part of the “religious right”, a majority favored declaring abortion illegal, and less than one in five in favor of legalizing gay marriage.[41] > A Pew poll found similar results, in addition to finding a majority in favor of securing the border and Second Amendment rights.[42] > A University of Washington poll found that a majority of Teabaggers thought gays and lesbians had “too much political power” and that immigration was “changing the country for the worse.”[43] > According to a CBS poll, Teabaggers are more likely to be birthers.[44] ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/70 "2013-07-23T19:03:29Z")
Again, the original Tea Party ™ idea that came together between February and April 2009 was hijacked after the fact. In its initial and earliest days, it was about taxes and federal spending. Then the nutjobs got hold of it (much like most other populist movements throughout history). I will say this, "rational"wiki sounds like an utter charming and pleasant afternoon read, I can see why so many rely on it for their information. No, not really - just by posting that stuff you killed several baby bunnies somewhere on Earth. Is that the style of the entire site? I think the points could be made in a less…vile manner. It’s clearly written by the convinced, for the convinced, nobody on “the other side” would possibly be swayed by any of that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/71 "2013-07-23T19:11:07Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Again, the original Tea Party ™ idea that came together between February and April 2009 was hijacked after the fact. In its initial and earliest days, it was about taxes and federal spending. Then the nutjobs got hold of it (much like most other populist movements throughout history). But what about its **future?** That’s what really matters, isn’t it? Is the TP going to fade away, or is it going to run more primary-challenges in 2014, and in service to whose interests, and how is that all going to play out? (Not much like in 2010, I should think; everybody’s had time to adjust to the TP’s presence, now.) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/72 "2013-07-23T19:13:05Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Again, the original Tea Party ™ idea that came together between February and April 2009 was hijacked after the fact. In its initial and earliest days, it was about taxes and federal spending. Then the nutjobs got hold of it (much like most other populist movements throughout history). No, the record shows that (now Freedom Works) started to use it in 2002. Are you paying attention? Really guys, this blind spot on timelines or time itself that I see coming from many on the right is getting tiresome. > [@Werekoala](#): > > I will say this, "rational"wiki sounds like an utter charming and pleasant afternoon read, I can see why so many rely on it for their information. They are closer to what we do, as in the SD, they debunk pseudoscience and fight anti-science. And no, their entry on genetic engineering shows that they also do not mind on ripping a new one on many on the left that are against it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/73 "2013-07-23T19:16:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > More to the point, they were rich white guys who wanted a say in how they were taxed. “[No taxation without representation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation)”, no? It was never “We don’t want to pay any taxes ever”. Actually, what frightened our FFs was the English ruling class. They did not want to wind up like the Scots and the Irish, toiling for English absentee landlords. From [_The American Way of Strategy,_](http://www.amazon.com/American-Way-Strategy-Michael-Lind/dp/0195308379/sr=8-1/qid=1166282273/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9788122-0265632?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Michael Lind: > [@](#): > > Many people remember vaguely that the American Revolution had something to do with taxes. A few remember that the issue was whether the power to tax lay with London or the American colonies. But this was a surrogate for the real issue: preserving the American way of life. > > In the first two-thirds of the eighteenth century, the British colonists in North America developed a distinctive way of life quite different from that of their British cousins. Something like Britain’s aristocratic society endured in the South and parts of the Northeast. But in general, colonial society was characterized by a degree of middle-class prosperity and widespread property ownership unknown in any other society in the world. Not only were America’s yeoman farmers, artisans, and merchants better off than most Britons and Europeans, but also the cost of government was much lower. > > The trouble began in the aftermath of the French and Indian War (Seven Years’ War) of 1754-63. The British imperial government insisted that the colonists pay more of the costs of their own defense. The colonists, however, feared that the London parliament was trying to destroy the system of colonial self-government that had grown up in the preceding generations. They remembered that the London parliament had destroyed the Scottish parliament in 1707 (it would eliminate the Irish parliament in 1801). They feared that the same thing was now happening to them. They would pay ever higher taxes, even as their colonial assemblies lost authority to the London parliament. As a result, British North America might come to resemble Ireland or Scotland, impoverished countries where absentee landlords held vast tracts of land and where major decisions were made by well-connected aristocrats and merchants in London with little or no accountability to the people whom they ruled. > > \ > > This history may be familiar but the point is not. For Americans, the independence of the United States from Britain and its organization as a democratic republic was a means to an end, not an end in itself. The end was the safeguarding of the communal right to self-government and the individual liberties that the British settlers in America had already enjoyed for generations under British rule. Americans adopted their own strategy for defending the American way of life against imperial centralization – independence as a democratic republic – only because their first choice, self-government within a federal monarchical empire, was rejected. Democratic republicanism and national independence were only two of several possible methods for preserving what by 1776 was the traditional American way of life, characterized by personal liberty, widespread property ownership, low taxes, and an inexpensive military. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/74 "2013-07-23T19:17:11Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > No, not really - just by posting that stuff you killed several baby bunnies somewhere on Earth. Dammit! I was going for kittens! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/75 "2013-07-23T19:22:11Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Again, the original Tea Party ™ idea that came together between February and April 2009 was hijacked after the fact. No, it didn’t. See post #49. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/76 "2013-07-23T19:22:41Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > No, not really - just by posting that stuff you killed several baby bunnies somewhere on Earth. Is that the style of the entire site? I think the points could be made in a less…vile manner. It’s clearly written by the convinced, for the convinced, nobody on “the other side” would possibly be swayed by any of that. I guess when you can’t dispute the facts, juvenile tantrums are all you’ve got left. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/77 "2013-07-23T19:26:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > No, the record shows that (now Freedom Works) started to use it in 2002. Are you paying attention? Really guys, this blind spot on timelines or time itself that I see coming from many on the right is getting tiresome. One more time - Tea Party is American social shorthand for tax protesting, and it actually started to be used in 1777. EVERYONE uses it to mean that. TEA (acronym) Party was not a Koch/FreedomWorks/Cheney/Bilderberger/etc. “front”. Or are you saying that Freedom Works originally set sleeper agents all around the country, 7 years prior, waiting for the precise moment to strike with “spontaneous” protests of actors or something? Wouldn’t a more “rational” assumption be that it WAS a nearly spontaneous outpouring that was then hijacked by the Puppet Masters? Try Occam’s Razor on it and see what works better. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > They are closer to what we do, as in the SD, they debunk pseudoscience and fight anti-science. And no, their entry on genetic engineering shows that they also do not mind on ripping a new one on many on the left that are against it. I wasn’t talking so much about content as how it is delivered. I’m sure I’d probably find much of the information fascinating and even agree with huge swaths of it if it weren’t for the “look how cutting, ironic and hipster we are, and oh yeah, fuck you Stupid-McStupiderson who doesn’t think like us” presentation. As it is, I doubt I’ll ever even skim any of it if the entire content of the site is written in that manner. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/78 "2013-07-23T19:29:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I guess when you can’t dispute the facts, juvenile tantrums are all you’ve got left. Did you read the "rational"wiki stuff that was posted? You think I threw a juvenile tantrum? Are you being serious or are you just being hiply ironic? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/79 "2013-07-23T19:35:29Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > One more time - Tea Party is American social shorthand for tax protesting, and it actually started to be used in 1777. EVERYONE uses it to mean that. TEA (acronym) Party was not a Koch/FreedomWorks/Cheney/Bilderberger/etc. “front”. Or are you saying that it Freedom Works originally set sleeper agents all around the country, waiting for the precise moment to strike with “spontaneous” protests of actors or something? Wouldn’t a more “rational” assumption be that it WAS a nearly spontaneous outpouring that was then hijacked by the Puppet Masters? No, it isn’t. No, everyone doesn’t. You can quit with your “TEA Party” acronym pushing-[it’s not catching on among the _Tea_ Partiers.](http://www.teaparty.org/) Nobody said anything like that-how silly. Facts is facts, not matter what _you_ think would be a more “rational” explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/80 "2013-07-23T19:43:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, it isn’t. > No, everyone doesn’t. > You can quit with your “TEA Party” acronym pushing-[it’s not catching on among the _Tea_ Partiers.](http://www.teaparty.org/) > Nobody said anything like that-how silly. > Facts is facts, not matter what _you_ think would be a more “rational” explanation. edited to add: [Where, oh where has my acronym gone?](http://www.teaparty.org/about-us/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271.md?page=5)