# What is the Tea Party movement, really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271 "2013-07-23T01:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/101 "2013-07-24T02:24:31Z")
An intra-party revolt against the Bush dominated Republican establishment. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/102 "2013-07-24T02:26:19Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > For many years they did, that profit gained for all those years where they managed to press FUD and about restrictions to tobacco was money in the bank, incidentally I became familiar with those groups thanks to seeing now virtually the same faces in the current efforts to discredit climate science and delay any changes on the control of emissions in the USA. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py2XVILHUjQ&list=TLLbMFZPv3hGs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py2XVILHUjQ&list=TLLbMFZPv3hGs) > Video showing the sorry tale of Dr. Seitz that claimed that no tobacco study of his showed any harm coming from tobacco, then the same Dr. shilled for the fossil fuel industry. > > The same groups supporting Seitz morphed to the ones now denying anthropological climate change, guys like that know what rackets are profitable. > > ¨Any money is good as long as it´s green, I´m not quite clear about this moralistic issue.¨ -Dr. Seitz I understand all that, and that the tobacco industry organized smokers-rights groups. What puzzles me is this line from the article about the study: > [@](#): > > Both groups are now “supporting the tobacco companies’ political agenda by mobilizing local Tea Party opposition to tobacco taxes and smoke-free laws.” If there was a pro-tobacco part of Tea Party rallies/protests, it must have been kept on the backburner. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/103 "2013-07-24T02:56:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I understand all that, and that the tobacco industry organized smokers-rights groups. What puzzles me is this line from the article about the study: > > If there was a pro-tobacco part of Tea Party rallies/protests, it must have been kept on the backburner. As pointed before, it is a side benefit: when you protest taxes that could go to fossil fuel companies, you also oppose taxes to tobacco companies, and virtually everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/104 "2013-07-24T12:54:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As pointed before, it is a side benefit: when you protest taxes that could go to fossil fuel companies, you also oppose taxes to tobacco companies, and virtually everything else. Is that (promoting a general atmosphere of opposition to regulation and taxation) what was meant by “mobilizing local Tea Party opposition to tobacco taxes and smoke-free laws”? If so, that’s a very misleading way to phrase it, and makes me suspicious of this study’s neutrality. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/105 "2013-07-24T14:12:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > An intra-party revolt against the Bush dominated Republican establishment. With what prospects of success? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/106 "2013-07-24T20:05:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And what do the answers to the above questions portend for its role in 2014? Well, here’s one answer: [The TP is going to primary that week-kneed bleeding-heart RINO, Mitch McConnell.](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-22/mconnell-draws-primary-opponent-as-tea-party-splinters.html) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/107 "2013-07-24T20:25:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > With what prospects of success? The tide is turning against Bushism as evidenced by the whooping that Karl Rove’s candidates took last election, but it’s hard to tell. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/108 "2013-07-24T20:53:49Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The tide is turning against Bushism as evidenced by the whooping that Karl Rove’s candidates took last election, but it’s hard to tell. Well, on which side of that divide would you place Romney and Ryan? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/109 "2013-07-24T22:42:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, on which side of that divide would you place Romney and Ryan? The losing side. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/110 "2013-07-24T22:45:55Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > The losing side. Well, not in intra-party terms. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/111 "2013-07-24T22:53:15Z")
Is that same part of the party going to run next time? If so, they’ll still be the losing side. The money republicans have to kick out the sex republicans. It’s that easy. Get rid of the sex nazis, (and the isolationists), then balance a budget. they’ll end up with 60ish% of the vote if they can do that. imho ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/112 "2013-07-24T23:28:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, on which side of that divide would you place Romney and Ryan? Establishment types. Ryan plays both sides nicely, though. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/113 "2013-07-25T00:22:59Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Is that same part of the party going to run next time? If so, they’ll still be the losing side. > > The money republicans have to kick out the sex republicans. > It’s that easy. Get rid of the sex nazis, (and the isolationists), then balance a budget. > they’ll end up with 60ish% of the vote if they can do that. imho Who are the isolationists? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/114 "2013-07-25T01:10:50Z")
ERm, uh, there’s a subset of the right that wants everything to stop at our borders. The left has a similar group, but they are even less powerful. On the right, it’s some of the tea partiers and most of the Ron Paul supporters. A Republican party that wants to balance the books at home and expand business abroad is a winning party, imho. Keeping everyone’s collective nose out of each others’ bedrooms is just good business too. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/115 "2013-07-25T01:16:23Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > ERm, uh, there’s a subset of the right that wants everything to stop at our borders. > The left has a similar group, but they are even less powerful. On the right, it’s some of the tea partiers and most of the Ron Paul supporters. > > A Republican party that wants to balance the books at home and expand business abroad is a winning party, imho. > Keeping everyone’s collective nose out of each others’ bedrooms is just good business too. Ron Paul was an avid free trader. What exactly do you mean by “expand business abroad”? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/116 "2013-07-25T02:49:11Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Is that (promoting a general atmosphere of opposition to regulation and taxation) what was meant by “mobilizing local Tea Party opposition to tobacco taxes and smoke-free laws”? If so, that’s a very misleading way to phrase it, and makes me suspicious of this study’s neutrality. Once again, the documents from the tobacco companies and fossil fuel ones obtained from court cases and releases of information showed that the expected result was indeed what they wanted; the companies knew who to fund to get the expected inaction in congress, the documents identified the opposition that needed to be funded, and it was. Of course there were elements that denied the science that made the connection with tobacco use with cancer and other diseases, and that anti-scientific opposition was also funded. The study does not concentrate just on the anti-tax angle, and ever since I got involved also with climate change, it is clear that denial of science and anti-taxation goes hand in hand regarding the reasons why groups like the Heartland Institute can jump from working against regulations of tobacco to also deny the science behind climate change without losing a beat. [http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/12/19/1362861/heeding-public-outrage-pfizer-drops-climate-denial-and-tobacco-front-group-heartland-institute/?mobile=nc](http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/12/19/1362861/heeding-public-outrage-pfizer-drops-climate-denial-and-tobacco-front-group-heartland-institute/?mobile=nc) And one of the reasons for mentioning Heartland is that they also got a hand in propping up the tea party: [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/04/15/37585/heartland-chicago-teabag/](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/04/15/37585/heartland-chicago-teabag/) > [@](#): > > Like his fellow astroturfers at Americans for Prosperity, American Solutions, and FreedomWorks, O’Hara is misrepresenting the extent to which his employer, the Heartland Institute, has been involved in helping organize today’s protests. Earlier this week, O’Hara himself issued a press release bragging about how Heartland was “the first organization on board for the first tea parties” and has been “integrally involved in the April 15th Tax Day Tea Party here in Chicago.” Heartland promoted the protests on their homepage today. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/117 "2013-07-25T02:51:57Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Who are the isolationists? Pat Buchanan is one. Quite consistently. I should hope you don’t want your politics to resemble **his** in any way conceivable. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/118 "2013-07-25T08:49:18Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Touche’, pussycat. > > I just have a problem with self-righteousness from any side of the spectrum. I’m certain there must be many right-leaning sites with similar, if not worse, examples. > > I, of course, am not self-righteous, I’m simply right. 😃 > > (_Editor’s note_: That was not intended to be a factual statement regarding the current, past, or future discussions, it was merely the author’s misguided attempt at humor in a political “discussion”. Govern yourself accordingly.) No, you had it right. What they are doing is highly irrational, making contentious points that they can’t actually back up with evidence. Even “snark” has to be accurate. Motivations are assigned to people that they cannot back up. It’s not being rational, it’s pushing their own story. And it didn’t use to be that way. You can see it in many articles. You can see the more nuanced approach in some sentence followed by some asshole saying something stupid in the next. It’s constantly full of unwarranted assumptions being made to score points with the contributors rather than to inform the audience. You absolutely cannot link to it to help you fight ignorance anymore. It’s not like this site where you are talking to people directly, so that’s its only purpose. And it fails at that purpose because it’s more fun to be caustic. They let their own desire for that fun override its goal to inform about woo. They decided to focus on political issues which are inherently ambiguous rather than sticking with woo which is unadulterated bullshit. And thus they discredit themselves as a decent source for anything. And, no, a lot of their crap isn’t cited. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/119 "2013-07-25T10:33:55Z")
Well, the Tea Partiers have their sights set on McConnell. How do you think that’s likely to work out for them? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271/120 "2013-07-25T12:51:50Z")
The TP does at any rate appear to be a thing about which it’s hard to be neutral. Everyone who does not support them thinks they’re a bunch of idiots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-tea-party-movement-really/664271.md?page=7)